If you could do it all over again...

[Sal1950]

Remember buying my first set of Monster Cable speaker wire and a set of Nordost around 2001 which I seem to remember costing around $200 which was really crazy back then (still have them today, I wonder how they would really measure up).

That strikes up my memory and a question on the original Monster cable.
It was a two lead zip cord with a clear jacket the looked SO thick at the time. At least in my old memories "minds eye".
I wonder what the gauge it really was?
Anyone know?

 

[Midwest Blade]

That strikes up my memory and a question on the original Monster cable.
It was a two lead zip cord with a clear jacket the looked SO thick at the time. At least in my old memories "minds eye".
I wonder what the gauge it really was?
Anyone know?

Probably around 12ga. but the clear jacket always made it look bigger but I do not ever remember seeing the actual. Over the years mine oxidized turning quite dark, I also remember how easy it was to break the wire when stripping the wire to put on a new set of connectors. I still remember sitting through the sales pitch, still I used them for more than a decade.

 

[garbulky]

I am quite happy with the way my system path went. I got lucky. A large amount of my purchases happened without a trial first. I simply got lucky that they were really great at performance especially my Axiom M80 speakers - I think I just seriously lucked out on them.

My new perspective however comes that my old "sweet spot" listening position is unfortunately not tenable due to physical issues. So I have thought,, what if I went straight to a high end headphone setup? It's an idea I toy with. I could see myself quite happy with an HD800S coupled to some excellent headphone amps and a DC-1. But a headphone setup means that I can't share with my family so it probably wouldn't work.

The other is of course active audio. If I had exposure to say a set of airmotiv 5's and a dc-1, I probably would have simply stopped right there. The simplicity and do it all nature would have been what I wanted. So it is interesting to contemplate.

 

[Blumlein 88]

That strikes up my memory and a question on the original Monster cable.
It was a two lead zip cord with a clear jacket the looked SO thick at the time. At least in my old memories "minds eye".
I wonder what the gauge it really was?
Anyone know?

Like Midwest Blade said they were 12 gauge. The clear thick insulation was to make them look Monster. Mine turned green inside. A decade or so later when some hardware stores were selling speaker wire you could get an identical version for much cheaper. Various names besides Monster. Must have been the same supplier though as it too would turn green after a few years.

 

[Midwest Blade]

I have thought,, what if I went straight to a high end headphone setup? It's an idea I toy with. I could see myself quite happy with an HD800S coupled to some excellent headphone amps and a DC-1. But a headphone setup means that I can't share with my family so it probably wouldn't work.

I picked up a pair of headphones a little over a year ago as condo living is not really conducive to hifi listening, listening to Tidal via my ipad has been perfectly ok, your post makes me wonder what else can I get to with a bit of investment.

 

[GrimSurfer]

In response to the original question, I wouldn't go shopping for a good system. I would have read a great deal more in order to understand the technology, design philosophy, and measurements of great components that fell within my budget. I would have compromised on features because one can often do without them.

But it was the 80s (pre internet), so one could spend a year or two just getting hold of the information needed for such a decision. It is from this perspective that I have no regrets.... except...

I would have risk-managed by purchasing discrete components instead of a receiver. I would have spent proportionally more on the amp because that is the component with the greatest service life. I would have selected one playback medium and held onto that until the next generation medium was fully mature. In other words, I would not have been a "first adopter" because the cost of being one, relative to the benefits, is low.

 

[garbulky]

I picked up a pair of headphones a little over a year ago as condo living is not really conducive to hifi listening, listening to Tidal via my ipad has been perfectly ok, your post makes me wonder what else can I get to with a bit of investment.

For the longest time I was under the impression that headphones simply could not satisfy my two channel listening needs because of them not being speakers. It wasn't until I stepped up to a powerful headphone amp (basx a-100) and a HD 700 where I realized, wow this stuff sounds pretty great. So I don't know what it would be like stepping up to "the best". I have no idea. I would be interested in finding out.

 

[Sal1950]

Like Midwest Blade said they were 12 gauge. The clear thick insulation was to make them look Monster. Mine turned green inside. A decade or so later when some hardware stores were selling speaker wire you could get an identical version for much cheaper. Various names besides Monster. Must have been the same supplier though as it too would turn green after a few years.

That's what I figured also. Mine turned green too, probably a reaction to some plasticizer out gassing and the copper?
They weren't terribly expensive in the early days and to their credit they did awaken the average Joe to the fact that the 18 gauge zip he was using could be causing a audible degradation. But then sadly Mr Lee and the rest of the market came to the realization that the bigger BS stories you could tell and the more you charged, the market would buy into just about any crazy thing and the larger the unconscionable profits could be. First it was speaker wire, then interconnects and latter any type of connector became fodder for the audiophool market. A truly sad and ugly situation it has become

 

[Blumlein 88]

In response to the original question, I wouldn't go shopping for a good system. I would have read a great deal more in order to understand the technology, design philosophy, and measurements of great components that fell within my budget. I would have compromised on features because one can often do without them.

But it was the 80s (pre internet), so one could spend a year or two just getting hold of the information needed for such a decision. It is from this perspective that I have no regrets.... except...

I would have risk-managed by purchasing discrete components instead of a receiver. I would have spent proportionally more on the amp because that is the component with the greatest service life. I would have selected one playback medium and held onto that until the next generation medium was fully mature. In other words, I would not have been a "first adopter" because the cost of being one, relative to the benefits, is low.

Well early in the CD world I wasn't first adopter because I couldn't afford to be. It took maybe close to two years, but I had told myself when a CD player is available for $200 I'll buy one. That might not always be a good policy. A local store had a sale when new models came out and prices dropped. I think it might even have been a Memorial day sale. Anyway, Magnavox for $199 right there in the newspaper (remember those). I did go get one. But the coming of CD was a big paradigm shift. Almost as big as stereo vs mono (and in the end maybe bigger). Once digital was established I don't know what would happen that would be as big as that event. Play from memory sticks or hard drives or streaming, but it is all just filling all the niches with digital audio.

I agree if you don't have active powered speakers, buying amps is a good thing to do. Everything in front of it may change through many versions, but the amp and speakers are still useful. As Amir's testing shows there aren't yet any really good inexpensive amps that he has found so far.

 

[GrimSurfer]

That green colour was copper oxide, caused by too little stabilizer being used in the PVC dielectric causing it to break down and react with the wire. Stabilizer was an expensive additive and certain wire manufacturers used far too little of the stuff in their formulation.

Happened to me too!

 

[Blumlein 88]

That's what I figured also. Mine turned green too, probably a reaction to some plasticizer out gassing and the copper?
They weren't terribly expensive in the early days and to their credit they did awaken the average Joe to the fact that the 18 gauge zip he was using could be causing a audible degradation. But then sadly Mr Lee and the rest of the market came to the realization that the bigger BS stories you could tell and the more you charged, the market would buy into just about any crazy thing and the larger the unconscionable profits could be. First it was speaker wire, then interconnects and latter any type of connector became fodder for the audiophool market. A truly sad and ugly situation it has become

Lee at least had a technical background. His early work was basically that 12 gauge instead of 18 gauge zipcord and really nice connectors were a benefit. Which they were in some instances. He otherwise came along at the right time and makes some good (lucky) decisions. From there it was just the market that kept showering him with money. He followed the greenbacks.

Bill Low at AQ was simply an audio salesman, who saw what was happening and hitched along for the ride. He did a great job selling his stuff, and had an idea what sort of thinking sold well with the audiophile market. Come up with a semi-plausible idea, and implement beautifully. How is it AQ keeps designing cables that just get better, and better with various things of relatively trivial design differences yet has no theoretical framework. All trial and error. Not only that, if the story were true you'd think they'd have a couple working ideas, and maybe some cost more than others. Somehow they make like 8 levels in every category with a direct correlation of quality to price. All just sort of by accident. Yeah,....right!

 

[direstraitsfan98]

If I'd do it all over again, I'd go with an ESL setup.

 

[coolbuzz05]

Like Amir, my systems are better than I deserve, though I spent too much time and money over the years getting it all sorted just the way I like.

If I were building an entry-level system now, clean-slate, for limited budget (say, advice for a college student) I would get Massdrop HD58x headphones, a JDS Atom amp, a good sound card (like an Asus Xonar DX), and use a desktop PC as the source device. If the PC were a laptop then I would pick up a Topping DX3 Pro instead of the sound card & JDS Atom. Either way, total cost about $350 for everything, with excellent sound quality.

Why a sound card and why not external dac? I kinda need help regarding this. I understand jds labs ol dac is enough as a dac but for same price i can buy creative ae-5 sound card or creative g6 external sound card. i use Gaming PC(including noise from gpu and other parts) as source. I have jds labs Atom amp. i want to avoid chinese companies and would prefer western brands for warranty purpose and support.

 

[RayDunzl]

If I'd do it all over again, I'd go with an ESL setup.

I might, too.

 

[watchnerd]

This is partially a selfish post for me, but one that does make me curious. I'm currently in a blank sheet sort of phase in trying to put together a modest yet excellent listening experience...

I appreciate all of the input I received on my room/system thread, and I have been voraciously consuming all of the other threads on the forum as well. I'm sure I've covered a year's worth of material so far.

My own thread seemed split between recommendations for amplification+Revelesque passives and an active monitor path. In this and other threads I have often noticed posters making comments along the line of "if I was to start again today, I'd get an x and a y and call it a day..."

So, if you don't mind indulging a somewhat pointless question, I am wondering how you might complete that sentence yourself.

Since I am hoping to build a good minimalist digital stereo system for music, I think it might prove helpful to me to hear your thoughts (so there's some commendable benevolence in your reply).

Thanks, again.

-mitch

Digital only or do you need analog, too?

I'm assuming from "digital stereo" that analog is a non-issue, but just checking.

 

[Old Listener]

For me, "cost is no object" exercises are sterile. I rarely have enough money to think in those terms about anything. In addition, the "best" solution is very much dependent on my context.

I approach buying decisions by first defining the context in which I'll use the gear. Then I look around for solutions. I'll also have in mind a comfort level for the purchase. If I can't find a solution at my comfort level, I'll either compromise on my requirements to lower the cost of a good solution or accept the need for a higher cost solution.

For example, in my home office, I'm listening at 70-80 dB 2' from the monitors to 2 channel recordings. The music I listen to rarely has any content below 60H and not much at 60H. It doesn't cost that much to get good sound quality in that context. Inexpensive powered 2 way speakers with my judicious use of DSP can be a better solution than much more expensive speakers with better specs but without any DSP capability for correcting low frequency response. Once good enough SQ is available, a few features separate the best solution from the also-rans: a single power switch for both speakers, a single volume control on the front of one speakers that adjusts volume for both channels, multiple inputs for PC audio and input from a smartphone.

 

[BillG]

Digital only or do you need analog, too?

I'm assuming from "digital stereo" that analog is a non-issue, but just checking.

Most, if not all, current digital setups - be that active wireless speakers or passives connected to fully integrated amplifiers with built-in streaming - still retain at least one analog line level input. All of the active studio monitors I've seen only have analog inputs.

 

[JJB70]

I would go for active speakers in preference to passive, with respect to what active speakers I would buy I have no idea. I have a pair of active speakers with wireless in my home office and think that is the way to go.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Digital only or do you need analog, too?

I'm assuming from "digital stereo" that analog is a non-issue, but just checking.

Even if one needed analog inputs, and the gear didn't include it, lots of very nice, rather low cost ADC's are available for that purpose. Keep things digital whenever possible.

 

[watchnerd]

Most, if not all, current digital setups - be that active wireless speakers or passives connected to fully integrated amplifiers with built-in streaming - still retain at least one analog line level input. All of the active studio monitors I've seen only have analog inputs.

Even if one needed analog inputs, and the gear didn't include it, lots of very nice, rather low cost ADC's are available for that purpose. Keep things digital whenever possible.

Sure (my phono stage is digital), but the desire for an ADC does change the system requirements / architecture or adds more boxen.