If You Believe in Burn-in, Clap Your Hands

[pkane]

I don't know about electronics (capacitors primarily) and to some extent mechanical (speaker and headphone membranes/suspension) but cables?!?!?
Do they need to be polished by electrons??

Here's what the "experts" at Nordost have to say about it:

Turns out that if the cable is left unused, it needs to be (re)broken-in. Thankfully, some Nordost dealers offer this cable conditioning as a service, so you don't have to do it yourself. What a value to the consumer!!!

Who wouldn't want their cable charges to be neutralized? I mean who wants to have "brittle and bright sound that lacks details"?

 

[sergeauckland]

Not only have I never heard any equipment getting better with time, so no burn-in, I've also never heard any improvement (or even change) from switch-on.

My valve amplifiers sound the same whether on for 1 minute ((so sufficient for the valves to heat up) or 1 hour.
My SS equipment sounds the same from the moment it's switched on.

I've done a fair few measurements to back that up. Whilst indeed the bias current of a SS amp takes a few minutes to stabilise, the noise and distortion is just fine immediately after switch-on. With valve amplifiers there's very little variation once the valves have warmed up enough for emission to be sufficient, certainly not enough to be audible.

S.

 

[sq225917]

@EER, in my case I'm referring yo 2800uf 16v Panasonic Fc or wurth organic polymer of the same spec.

In circuit they see very little current and hence take tens of hours rather than a few minutes to fully form. Providing the power to a circuit with 64db of gain no doubt multiplies the measured outcome vs a more usual circuit/ decoupling role.

 

[xray]

The only burn in I've experienced for anything I own is when I seasoned my cast iron pan. It performed much better after.

 

[Palmspar]

Cables burn in looks like a waste of time.
But for big drivers like subwoofers, the surround and spider became more loose over time and there is a little difference in ts parameters then.

 

[JeffS7444]

I sold it many years ago, but at the time, I thought my Mark Levinson ML-1 preamp sounded very muffled until it had been powered up for some time, and IIRC, the unit didn't have a power switch. Though lovely to look at, I expect it's performance would be regarded as dated today.

And I recall Quad ESL57 electrostatic speakers having little or no output until the plastic films built up a proper charge.

Then there was the all-discrete, direct-coupled phono preamplifier based on an Erno Borbeley design: After I completed the build, I ran it for a number of hours, keeping an eye on DC offset, and periodically adjusting until it seemed to stabilize. Even so, I could cause a minor shift in DC offset by simply blowing air across the circuitry.

 

[Oddball]

Items might need couple of hours to settle after unpacking and installation. Probably more true for heavy speakers than amps though. After that, it's probably a fair game. Blast them on and have them pay for what you have paid for them.

If I was to move to igloo, I would probably like to warm up the gear before I use it. But given I live in the boring and temperature controlled environment where 23-25 degrees rules, don't feel the need for it. My Penguin is telling me though that igloos are loads of fun though .

 

[HalSF]

For all you technical types, if you believe that audio equipment must be "burned in" before use (or to get accurate measurements), I am wondering if there is any objective technical data to support that supposition.

I recently purchased an Eversolo A6 Gen 2 streamer/DAC/preamp and liked it enough to buy a second one two months later. This gave me an opportunity that I have never had before -- namely, to test two identical pieces of audio gear, one that we could say had been "burned in" and the other which had not. My subjective impression, using only my ears, was that there was no difference that I could detect between the two, before or after the second unit could also be said to have been "burned in". My feeling is that, if there were any differences in audio quality, they were too small for my ears to notice.

Since then, I have been using my Loxjie D60 as an external DAC for one of these units, and I do hear a slight difference between the two setups. But it is not dramatic. I use the D60 primarily for my TV audio, but also route the output of the A6 through it to use the powered speakers or its headphone amp when I just want to listen to music (because streaming Amazon Music sounds better with the A6 as a source than Amazon's Roku or Google TV apps and is less buggy).

Based on the way these listening comparisons were conducted, they only provide an interesting and fun iota of possible evidence that burn-in effects in the Eversolo component are imperceptible or nonexistent, and no useful evidence that the Eversolo and the Lexiie sound different.

In general DACs seem like the least likely audio components to demonstrate that burn-in effects occur in any way that matters or deserves study even using objective methods. Kinda like studying if yelling at clouds affects the weather.

 

[egellings]

The only burn in I've experienced for anything I own is when I seasoned my cast iron pan. It performed much better after.

The pan ended up with a coating on its cooking surface after seasoning. The cables, not so much. What got coated was the listener's beliefs.

 

[egellings]

Here's what the "experts" at Nordost have to say about it:
View attachment 450321

Turns out that if the cable is left unused, it needs to be (re)broken-in. Thankfully, some Nordost dealers offer this cable conditioning as a service, so you don't have to do it yourself. What a value to the consumer!!!
View attachment 450323
Who wouldn't want their cable charges to be neutralized? I mean who wants to have "brittle and bright sound that lacks details"?

Kay bull!

 

[Chrispy]

Here's what the "experts" at Nordost have to say about it:
View attachment 450321

Turns out that if the cable is left unused, it needs to be (re)broken-in. Thankfully, some Nordost dealers offer this cable conditioning as a service, so you don't have to do it yourself. What a value to the consumer!!!
View attachment 450323
Who wouldn't want their cable charges to be neutralized? I mean who wants to have "brittle and bright sound that lacks details"?

LOL

 

[valerianf]

There is something very well known from the EE: a burning of 24 to 48h is needed for the electronics. The goal is to detect the early failure of the electronic components. For our audio product the manufacturer warranty will take care of that has this burning test is conducted in our home!
But, if electronic components could die in the first 24 to 48h, could they slitly change of behavior?
Yes, for sure, but normally they are staying inside the datasheet tolerance.

 

[egellings]

There is something very well known from the EE: a burning of 24 to 48h is needed for the electronics. The goal is to detect the early failure of the electronic components. For our audio product the manufacturer warranty will take care of that has this burning test is conducted in our home!
But, if electronic components could die in the first 24 to 48h, could they slitly change of behavior?
Yes, for sure, but normally they are staying inside the datasheet tolerance.

It's called infant mortality.

 

[JPA]

Cables burn in looks like a waste of time.
But for big drivers like subwoofers, the surround and spider became more loose over time and there is a little difference in ts parameters then.

According to Vance Dickason, author of "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook", the various driver parameter changes tend to cancel each other out, so a driver's performance hardly changes at all.

 

[ivayvr]

Here's what the "experts" at Nordost have to say about it:
View attachment 450321

Turns out that if the cable is left unused, it needs to be (re)broken-in. Thankfully, some Nordost dealers offer this cable conditioning as a service, so you don't have to do it yourself. What a value to the consumer!!!
View attachment 450323
Who wouldn't want their cable charges to be neutralized? I mean who wants to have "brittle and bright sound that lacks details"?

I believe that experts at Nordost produce much more gas than any cable could ever. Unfortunately, the smell is much stronger, long lasting and very unpleasant .
No specific burn in process will ever eliminate the smell.

 

[boxerfan88]

The HiFi shows I attended, the HiFi shows I watched online, quite often I come across Nordost cables. I also come to know that a few in the hiend space either own or aspire to own Nordost cables. Why is it so?

Super powerful marketing?

 

[terryforsythe]

Super powerful marketing?

Yes. Also, the flat cables are good for running under carpet.

 

[wwenze]

Considering that capacitors need burn testing to check for shorts developing, I guess a coil of wires insulated by a thin layer of polish needs that too.

 

[terryforsythe]

Considering that capacitors need burn testing to check for shorts developing, I guess a coil of wires insulated by a thin layer of polish needs that too.

Burn-in testing of an inductor would not detect any defects. If there is a crack in the insulation on the magnet wire, there would need to be another crack on a turn immediately next to it, and enough voltage drop between the turns to cause an arc - the insulation on either sides of the crack would maintain a small distance between exposed copper. It is a highly unlikely scenario that there would be enough voltage drop between turns to create an arc in an inductor. In transformers it is more of a concern, which is why Nomex paper oftentimes is used between layers.

For the turns to actually short together, the insullation would have to be very poor - patches of insulation on the magnet wire would need to be completely missing. The best way to detect it would be measuring low inductance. I don't know what insullation is being used by off-shore manufacturers, but we used heavy Nylese; it is very durable and I never saw anything like that occur.

 

[JSmith]

Do they need to be polished by electrons??

Cryogenic cable treatment is where it's at.


JSmith