If we are faithful in test results, what’s the point of buying pricier DAC over DAC+Amp combo?

[LaLaLard]

Take SMSL for example.

M500 costs $399, has dual 9038pro dac chip, got a relatively good HP amp, with SINAD score from XLR output = 117db

VMV D1 costs $1300, has dual 9038pro dac chip, got NO HP output, with SINAD score from XLR output = 113db

So basically if I buy M500 I'm getting 4db extra SINAD with a HP amp thrown in, for $900 less?

As they’re from the same company it worths discussion whether and why would we (or anyone) choose the latter for sonic performance?

 

[North_Sky]

We need to measure more audio components (DACs, Amps, etc.) that cost much more ($10,000-100,000) to compare.

There is also the Prestige/Pride/Power (PPP) aspect because one can.
And that too is respectable...everything is respectable that makes one happy without interfering on other's happiness.

But to be wise in this audio hobby is to discover more music we love and play it on whatever medium of our choice. ....Independence and Freedom.

Jealousy and show off: Low Life (LL) - IMO, YMMV, ALL THAT JAZZ

 

[JeffS7444]

even if some DAC performs better than M500’s DAC module, they would both fall in the “completely transparent” category, so even if we’re talking about matrix audio x-Sabre (which performs marginally better) the discussion would still be raised.

Once sonic transparency has been achieved, it's really all about features, form-factors, novelty (and maybe just doing stuff because it seems like fun). Life would be duller if we had nothing to strive for, wouldn't it? Even if that "something more" can only be detected on sophisticated instruments, or takes the form of nicer-than-necessary flourishes like OLED displays, weighted metal knobs etc.

 

[Jimbob54]

I take your point but isnt it just another version of "why buy an expensive DAC" or "Arent all DACs the same"?

The Headphone amp angle muddies the water, I use an M500 exclusively as a DAC for other HPAs . The built in amp is, for my money, pretty weak and not up to my use needs. I bought it in full knowledge of that because I considered it good value and it met my criteria.

If the VMV had the same HPA as the M500 I wouldnt be buying it for the HPA either but because the DAC matched my use needs , I wouldnt be buying that as a combo device.

 

[LaLaLard]

Once sonic transparency has been achieved, it's really all about features, form-factors, novelty (and maybe just doing stuff because it seems like fun). Life would be duller if we had nothing to strive for, wouldn't it? Even if that "something more" can only be detected on sophisticated instruments, or takes the form of nicer-than-necessary flourishes like OLED displays, weighted metal knobs etc.

I understand that, but I wouldn’t either think VMV D1 is aesthetically better than M500 or it has got more feature - just a plain box doing well at its job. I personally think Topping, Gustard and SMSL are the same kind of company in this aspect. I could understand anyone buying Devialet Expert for its look, I would want to pay much more if SMSL is that gorgeous. But that’s why I try to compare these 2 product from the same company, and both seem to have very few features, and are both plain metal boxes...

 

[North_Sky]

You just said it ^ ... one is prettier, better built, OLED display, gold knob, ...

* Do we believe in system synergy; sound component matching, decor look, audio marriage, nuptial happiness, sync, ...?
Can our ears hear that synergy, marriage, etc.
Are we satisfy auditory and visually wise?
Do we want to go to the limit, our limit, and even beyond?

 

[LaLaLard]

I take your point but isnt it just another version of "why buy an expensive DAC" or "Arent all DACs the same"?

The Headphone amp angle muddies the water, I use an M500 exclusively as a DAC for other HPAs . The built in amp is, for my money, pretty weak and not up to my use needs. I bought it in full knowledge of that because I considered it good value and it met my criteria.

If the VMV had the same HPA as the M500 I wouldnt be buying it for the HPA either but because the DAC matched my use needs , I wouldnt be buying that as a combo device.

True, what I meant was just you get more bag for your buck, not buying it since it’s a combo. I agree with you. However without the DAC performing better or have more features than M500, nor looking better (at least to me), and from the same company, I really want to know if any mate here, who is likely to think more reasonably and scientifically than random audiophiles, would choose the latter and if so, for what reason. I’ve enjoyed a lot on this forum but I’m not in these industry (acoustic, EE) background so there might have been some point I missed.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Take SMSL for example.

M500 costs $399, has dual 9038pro dac chip, got a good HP amp, got SINAD from XLR output = 117db

VMV D1 costs $1300, has everything above but no HP output, got SINAD from XLR output = 113db

As they’re from the same company it worths discussion why would we (or anyone) choose the latter in this case?

Also, even if some DAC performs better than M500’s DAC module, they would both fall in the “completely transparent” category, so even if we’re talking about matrix audio x-Sabre (which performs marginally better) the discussion would still be raised.

IMHO the choice is entirely functions, connections and styling.
One may like the look of a particular unit or any functions like filters or equalisation potential.

 

[LaLaLard]

You just said it ^ ... one is prettier, better built, OLED display, gold knob, ...

* Do we believe in system synergy; sound component matching, decor look, audio marriage, nuptial happiness, sync, ...?
Can our ears hear that synergy, marriage, etc.
Are we satisfy auditory and visually wise?
Do we want to go to the limit, our limit, and even beyond?

I said I would pay more for the look of Devialet products, matrixaudio and even RME - I really like how ADI2 DAC looks and feels. But isn’t VMV D1 simply a metal box typically made by SMSL?

 

[JeffS7444]

I understand that, but I wouldn’t either think VMV D1 is aesthetically better than M500 or it has got more feature - just a plain box doing well at its job. I personally think Topping, Gustard and SMSL are the same kind of company in this aspect. I could understand anyone buying Devialet Expert for its look, I would want to pay much more if SMSL is that gorgeous. But that’s why I try to compare these 2 product from the same company, and both seem to have very few features, and are both plain metal boxes...

D1 is totally aimed at the sort of audiophile who wants a sense of "ultimate" components and tweaky architecture every step of the way. It's like those people who can't resist adding "performance mods" to their automobiles in the form of aero body kits, oversized wheels and loud exhausts.

 

[LaLaLard]

D1 is totally aimed at the sort of audiophile who wants a sense of "ultimate" components and tweaky architecture every step of the way. It's like those people who can't resist adding "performance mods" to their automobiles in the form of aero body kits, oversized wheels and loud exhausts.

Good point!

 

[Ron Texas]

Features, industrial design, snob appeal and so on.

 

[North_Sky]

High End emotional attachment ...
Detachment from the normal boring audio world ...

@ the end of the tunnel it's the music playing to our ears and hearts ...
How we perceive it on a higher level. The pursuit of being there in the here, close to live.

 

[ReaderZ]

So I bought DX7 Pro over D90.

As for M500, why not buy M300 MKII? Significantly cheaper than M500 as well as less reported problems than M500(at least for V1)

 

[Blake Klondike]

I showed the ASR reviews to a friend who is an EE who works on improving distortion on cell phone tower relays. He immediately got it: "These people just obviously love music and are fascinated with and can appreciate the technological design improvements. Even if DAC chips have been transparent for 20+ years, that doesn't mean it's not fun to see somebody building a better mousetrap." I feel like there is a lot of fun to be had in buying and checking out really well-designed new products. Plus, you get to support great people doing excellent work.

 

[3125b]

Ask a philatelist what the use of his hobby is.
It's just for the fun of it.

 

[daftcombo]

We need to measure more audio components (DACs, Amps, etc.) that cost much more ($10,000-100,000) to compare.

More totaldac you mean?

>>> I WANT MORE FUN.

 

[North_Sky]

More totaldac you mean?

>>> I WANT MORE FUN.

Me too, more fun in all classes from all price brackets...more global total equal DACs with rock solid engineering and sota performance.

Because music matters