IEMs Harmon Target Curve vs speaker flat target

[Bernard23]

Effects of the pinna? Not following you on that one.

Many don't like the sound of KEF, Genelec and Neumann, because they are very neutral. Many does like them for that exact reason. By creating a baseline of neutrality, one can speak about bright or dark in a conform way, which make it easier to understand what one is buying.

If you read this article (https://headphones.com/blogs/features/the-shape-of-iems-to-come) you will se that a Harman curve is not flat/neutral. Even less so on IEMs.

What I meant was that you can't compare speaker measurement and the associated correlation to perceived quality to headphones because of the different way the sound is delivered into the ear canal, ie HRTF. Agreed that Harman isn't a neutral curve, it's a statistically determined preference curve.

FWIW this clip by Joel explaining how the JM1 or Meta target was developed is interesting, it focuses on the measurement challenge rather than the validity of the end result, which given the uncertainty around an individual HRTF makes sense as a baseline.

If you want to make a comparison profile for loudspeakers, surely it's less complicated as there's one less variable to deal with (HRTF) because your ears are already "calibrated" in the real world, so targeting a truly flat response under anechoic conditions is a sensible reference point.

 

[Bernard23]

I concur on the point that it is impossible to achieve an EQ that is perfect for everyone. However, the JM-1 Delta is as close as we can reasonable get.

I don't concur on the point of it being an apple and orange comparison. Tonal balance can (and should in my opinion) be sounding equal across speakers, headphones and iems.

On the point of your studio control room: What kind of flat curve where you testing with? I can easily hear that a Beyerdynamic 770 Pro is correct and is very familiar sounding to my KEF speakers. The Zero:2 is way off when it comes to bass. Daft Punks Discovery sounds boomy, Donald Fagen's Morph the Cat is unlistenable.
However, if I apply the JM-1 Delta in Crinacles web-tool, then the iems falls in place with the KEFs and the Beyerdynamic.

I can of course hear differences between all three of them, but they are all tonally balanced which creates a common ground/sound.

But the JM-1 target is completely inappropriate for loudspeakers, because your using you outer ear to process the sound (the effect of the pinna), it's really difficult to compare headphones to loudspeakers, they're completely unnatural.
Also, whilst frequency response is significant, it's not the only characteristic of an iem or headphone that impacts sound quality, that's obvious when you EQ a bunch of devices to the same EQ target and they still sound very different; I have to same observation of the Zero 2 vs the Zero Red, they sound quite different even after EQ

 

[Jazigo]

But the JM-1 target is completely inappropriate for loudspeakers, because your using you outer ear to process the sound (the effect of the pinna), it's really difficult to compare headphones to loudspeakers, they're completely unnatural.
Also, whilst frequency response is significant, it's not the only characteristic of an iem or headphone that impacts sound quality, that's obvious when you EQ a bunch of devices to the same EQ target and they still sound very different; I have to same observation of the Zero 2 vs the Zero Red, they sound quite different even after EQ

I really enjoyed the video you linked in your previous comment! It really nails it.

IEMs: JM-1 DF
OE Headphones: B&K 5128 DF
Speakers: Anechoic chamber

If we measure all these product to these targets, we ensure that we have a neutral baseline for them all (they are all tonally balanced), which gives us a way of separating neutral from sound signatures.

Personally, I am allergic to tonal imbalance. It's like playing on a piano where one key plays louder than the rest. Not cool at all.

The above targets ensures that all of the device will present a tonal balanced experience for them all.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

One could look at the room as just an extension of our ears- an outer, outer ear...

Except that we can put measurement mics in a room & EQ a desired result accordingly. Good luck putting mics on your eardrums & adjusting the EQ to be flat in your personal ear canals!

 

[Bernard23]

Except that we can put measurement mics in a room & EQ a desired result accordingly. Good luck putting mics on your eardrums & adjusting the EQ to be flat in your personal ear canals!

Dan Clarke mentioned some work he's doing with Sean Olive - unsurprisingly this is exactly what I asked for! A means of establishing your personal HRTF!

 

[goryu]

Except that we can put measurement mics in a room & EQ a desired result accordingly.

Indeed we can!