IEMs for analytical listening (music playing/production)

[blackstrat]

First post for my first IEMs.
Big premise: I play electric guitar and I will use them at home to create my guitar sounds and then in the rehearsal room/stage with the band, so I need an IEM that's flat across the frequencies, something analytical and revealing, not a "warm" IEM for music listening.
Second: I'd rather spend a little more on a set of IEMs that sounds good and lasts a long time, than on a €20 IEM that drills into my ears.

KZs are often recommended, such as the ZSM and ZX10 Pro, but judging by their response curves, they don't seem suitable for music production or critical listening. They are very mid scooped with pronounced peaks in the 3-5 kHz region, which are very critical frequencies for electric guitars (harsh sound).
I've read good reviews about the Moondrop Aria, Dunu Titan S, and Final Audio A4000, I read that they are much more neutral, even if their frequency response curve shows that they are mid scopped too (perhaps because of the type of headphones? a common feature of all IEMs?). Do you have any experience with these?
As you may have guessed I'm in the $100 budget zone, it's my first IEM and a 500$ IEM is a big no for the moment.

 

[markanini]

Sounds like Truthear Hexa would be a good fit for you, although it's slightly sensitive to output impedances <2Ohm which includes most pro audio gear sadly. Since you already mentioned KZ I would suggest the KZ x Angelears Libra X, at least as a spare set. Dunu Titan S might be worth looking at, although I haven't tried it personally. Here's an informative tidbit for your use case:

Too much bass in the IEM is a disaster. If it is out of phase with the sound from the gazillion watts of subwoofer under the stage, it just cancels out. If it is IN phase, your head will explode.

 

[iGmole]

First post for my first IEMs.
Big premise: I play electric guitar and I will use them at home to create my guitar sounds and then in the rehearsal room/stage with the band, so I need an IEM that's flat across the frequencies, something analytical and revealing, not a "warm" IEM for music listening.
Second: I'd rather spend a little more on a set of IEMs that sounds good and lasts a long time, than on a €20 IEM that drills into my ears.

KZs are often recommended, such as the ZSM and ZX10 Pro, but judging by their response curves, they don't seem suitable for music production or critical listening. They are very mid scooped with pronounced peaks in the 3-5 kHz region, which are very critical frequencies for electric guitars (harsh sound).
I've read good reviews about the Moondrop Aria, Dunu Titan S, and Final Audio A4000, I read that they are much more neutral, even if their frequency response curve shows that they are mid scopped too (perhaps because of the type of headphones? a common feature of all IEMs?). Do you have any experience with these?
As you may have guessed I'm in the $100 budget zone, it's my first IEM and a 500$ IEM is a big no for the moment.

Ah! Herein lies the magic. You do not want a flat measuring IEM. You would basically only hear low mids.

You typically want the measured mid scoop in IEMs. They blast the sound directly at your eardrum, bypassing the room and important anatomical things that affect how you hear. Because of that, the scoopy curve is the closest thing to natural sound reproduction in IEMs.

People in lab coats studied it and came up with a curve that is close to a natural sound for most people. It is the Harman Target curve. Using the Harman Target as a reference you'll have a rough estimate if the IEM is bassy or not, bright or not.

However, there are individual variances. But the Harman Target will get you pretty close to speakers in a room kind of natural sound. And you'll quickly learn your personal deviation from the statistical baseline which is Harman. I suggest starting from bass light, but otherwise close to Harman Target models for stage use.

As an EDIT I'll have to remind you though, that on stage isolation is king if things get loud.

As a 2nd EDIT I'll also point out that, in many situations, it is best if everyone has similar sounding IEMs on stage. If you are the only one with a balanced IEM and everyone else has a mid oriented, dark IEM, you'll have everyone else telling mr. monitorman that the guitar needs more treble. And you'll ears will hurt, because most likely you can't do EQ per input per aux channel. What a lovely thing, IEM monitoring on stage.

 

[blackstrat]

Ah! Herein lies the magic. You do not want a flat measuring IEM. You would basically only hear low mids.

You typically want the measured mid scoop in IEMs. They blast the sound directly at your eardrum, bypassing the room and important anatomical things that affect how you hear. Because of that, the scoopy curve is the closest thing to natural sound reproduction in IEMs.

People in lab coats studied it and came up with a curve that is close to a natural sound for most people. It is the Harman Target curve. Using the Harman Target as a reference you'll have a rough estimate if the IEM is bassy or not, bright or not.

However, there are individual variances. But the Harman Target will get you pretty close to speakers in a room kind of natural sound. And you'll quickly learn your personal deviation from the statistical baseline which is Harman. I suggest starting from bass light, but otherwise close to Harman Target models for stage use.

As an EDIT I'll have to remind you though, that on stage isolation is king if things get loud.

As a 2nd EDIT I'll also point out that, in many situations, it is best if everyone has similar sounding IEMs on stage. If you are the only one with a balanced IEM and everyone else has a mid oriented, dark IEM, you'll have everyone else telling mr. monitorman that the guitar needs more treble. And you'll ears will hurt, because most likely you can't do EQ per input per aux channel. What a lovely thing, IEM monitoring on stage.

Wow, thanks to these few lines I've learned more than I did in dozens of videos and Google searches!! Thank you so much.
I come from a studio/home studio background, where flat response monitor are crucial for a realistic sounding mix (I even calibrated mine with the Sonarworks calibration mic), so I thought IEMs and headphones in general should have the same flat response across all frequencies. Seeing all the IEMs with this V-shaped curve left me with a lot of doubts.
I had never heard of Harman target (does it by any chance come from Harman-Kardon, the company specialized in audio?), but IEMs don't project sound waves into a room, but directly into the ear canal. The shape reminds me a lot of the Fletcher-Munson curve: perhaps at the SPLs used in IEMs our ear perceives the mids very well and trebles and lows very little, so you have to compensate this behaviour when designing an IEM, or perhaps is just a coincidence, idk!

However, even among IEMs that use the Harman target, some IEMs don't convince me like the ZS Pro X. They're definitely calibrated to the Harman curve but those peaks in the trebles scare me. I had Focal Alpha EVO 65s in the studio that had a peak at 3kHz that was deadly on guitars and couldn't be totally removed even after calibration; everything sounded harsh and thin, starting from my recorded guitar tones till to the professional rock/metal albums I listened to on YouTube/Deezer.

Granted I'm ignorant on the matter, as you may have guessed, can I assume the best IEMs are those tuned this way, with a "smooth" response in the trebles without any peaks? Or at least with barely noticeable peaks of 1-2 dB at most?

The second edit also gave me a lot to think about, but that's a step that will come later. For now, I want to take my first steps into the world of IEMs, since I've never owned one in my life, and since the whole world is moving in that direction. I feel like I'm behind the rest of the world

 

[iGmole]

Wow, thanks to these few lines I've learned more than I did in dozens of videos and Google searches!! Thank you so much.
I come from a studio/home studio background, where flat response monitor are crucial for a realistic sounding mix (I even calibrated mine with the Sonarworks calibration mic), so I thought IEMs and headphones in general should have the same flat response across all frequencies. Seeing all the IEMs with this V-shaped curve left me with a lot of doubts.
I had never heard of Harman target (does it by any chance come from Harman-Kardon, the company specialized in audio?), but IEMs don't project sound waves into a room, but directly into the ear canal. The shape reminds me a lot of the Fletcher-Munson curve: perhaps at the SPLs used in IEMs our ear perceives the mids very well and trebles and lows very little, so you have to compensate this behaviour when designing an IEM, or perhaps is just a coincidence, idk!

However, even among IEMs that use the Harman target, some IEMs don't convince me like the ZS Pro X. They're definitely calibrated to the Harman curve but those peaks in the trebles scare me. I had Focal Alpha EVO 65s in the studio that had a peak at 3kHz that was deadly on guitars and couldn't be totally removed even after calibration; everything sounded harsh and thin, starting from my recorded guitar tones till to the professional rock/metal albums I listened to on YouTube/Deezer.

Granted I'm ignorant on the matter, as you may have guessed, can I assume the best IEMs are those tuned this way, with a "smooth" response in the trebles without any peaks? Or at least with barely noticeable peaks of 1-2 dB at most?

The second edit also gave me a lot to think about, but that's a step that will come later. For now, I want to take my first steps into the world of IEMs, since I've never owned one in my life, and since the whole world is moving in that direction. I feel like I'm behind the rest of the world

Yes sharp peaks are generally nasty, as you probably know from messing with EQ in your studio world endeavours.

The treble region is imprecise in the measurements and you may find different peaks and valleys in the sound sound simply because, well, your ear canal is a resonance tube and it's size and shape is unique to you. You'll just have to try a few pairs.

The KZ Libra X Angelears X has already been mentioned. I have a pair and oh man it sounds lovely, monitor room like, is easy on the bass (good for on the stage) and has reasonable attenuation of external noise. You may find casually enjoying music much to your surprise.

I also have the ZS10 Pro X if that is what you meant with ZS Pro X and it is quite a bass happy IEM, and the upper midrange sounds a bit uneven.

For extra isolation, try foam tips. They also reduce the treble which may or may not be a good thing. Be brave with experimenting. But as an anecdote, you generally don't want a lot of treble after hearing a violin mic go feedback loop in your ears.

And the Libra X Angelears X is like 10€ or something. Maybe start with something like that.

 

[blackstrat]

Yes sharp peaks are generally nasty, as you probably know from messing with EQ in your studio world endeavours.

The treble region is imprecise in the measurements and you may find different peaks and valleys in the sound sound simply because, well, your ear canal is a resonance tube and it's size and shape is unique to you. You'll just have to try a few pairs.

The KZ Libra X Angelears X has already been mentioned. I have a pair and oh man it sounds lovely, monitor room like, is easy on the bass (good for on the stage) and has reasonable attenuation of external noise. You may find casually enjoying music much to your surprise.

I also have the ZS10 Pro X if that is what you meant with ZS Pro X and it is quite a bass happy IEM, and the upper midrange sounds a bit uneven.

For extra isolation, try foam tips. They also reduce the treble which may or may not be a good thing. Be brave with experimenting. But as an anecdote, you generally don't want a lot of treble after hearing a violin mic go feedback loop in your ears.

And the Libra X Angelears X is like 10€ or something. Maybe start with something like that.

I meant the KZ ZSN ProX, not the ZS10.
I have seen the more recent ZS12 Pro X, but even there I see the usual peaks on the trebles that I'd like to stay away from although, as you rightly point out, each ear canal is unique and does not respond exactly like the measurement systems used in the tests.
I can start with the KZ Libras which are $10 on Aliexpress, good suggestion, but I've also seen the PR1s for $15, which intrigue me because of the planar diaphragm driver, and the Castors for $8, which are adjustable via the 4 on/off switches. I might get all three to make a comparison and start gaining some more experience. I should spend about $30-35 total. Bad idea?

By the way, I'm seeing that the number of drivers is increasing on the newer models—the KZ Sonatas have up to 28 drivers—but those damned peaks in the trebles are still there. Are planar in-ears smoother and more regular in that region?

 

[Vincent Kars]

You might have a look at Etymotic. They won't fit your budget but are pretty neutral. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/etymotic-er2xr-review-iem.29818/

 

[iGmole]

I meant the KZ ZSN ProX, not the ZS10.
I have seen the more recent ZS12 Pro X, but even there I see the usual peaks on the trebles that I'd like to stay away from although, as you rightly point out, each ear canal is unique and does not respond exactly like the measurement systems used in the tests.
I can start with the KZ Libras which are $10 on Aliexpress, good suggestion, but I've also seen the PR1s for $15, which intrigue me because of the planar diaphragm driver, and the Castors for $8, which are adjustable via the 4 on/off switches. I might get all three to make a comparison and start gaining some more experience. I should spend about $30-35 total. Bad idea?

By the way, I'm seeing that the number of drivers is increasing on the newer models—the KZ Sonatas have up to 28 drivers—but those damned peaks in the trebles are still there. Are planar in-ears smoother and more regular in that region?

PR1 is a planar and if I recall correctly, requires quite a lot of power. Might be an issue on the stage depending on the headphone amps so maybe skip the PR line. The only planar I have is the PRX and it requires foam tips or the treble hurts my ears (it's very good with foam tips but.. bassy).

If you go Castor or Castor Pro, take the less bassy version (I have all the Castors.. I have a problem). They're quite good and the tuning switches do work, and for that price just try them.

Oh, a KZ Gale is also a great budget IEM with a pronounced midrange. For some reason I have that as well.

@Vincent Kars mentioned Etymotics. Isolation with them is absolutely fantastic. I've only ever had the ETY KIDS model, and I had to ask for overheads to the IEMs to hear anything from my cymbals. In a metal band.

 

[DVDdoug]

I had never heard of Harman target (does it by any chance come from Harman-Kardon, the company specialized in audio?

Yes! Harman Curve. (From what I can tell, the research team/division was independent from marketing.)

I think it's helpful to have a headphone/IEM that closely matches the Harman curve, at least as a reference. Then you can listen and maybe play around with EQ to get an idea how YOUR preferences compare, or how you define "analytical", etc.

Most of the difference in "sound" is frequency response and that can usually be adjusted with EQ. And Amir almost always particular EQ corrections with speakers, headphones, and IEMs. His recommendations are based on the Harman reference, then he listens and optionally tweaks by-ear.

The fixture/artificial ear makes a difference so it's important the measurements are comparable.

Of course, comfort is important and "personal".

Can I assume the best IEMs are those tuned this way, with a "smooth" response in the trebles without any peaks?

I believe some (most?) of the variations are resonances in the ear (and in the artificial ear) so they are "normal" and can't be completely corrected. (That is the case with headphones.)

Amir has a good Headphone Measurement Video and most of it should also apply to IEMs.

The shape reminds me a lot of the Fletcher-Munson curve: perhaps at the SPLs used in IEMs our ear perceives the mids very well and trebles and lows very little, so you have to compensate this behaviour when designing an IEM, or perhaps is just a coincidence, idk!

I think it's coincidence. ...Just a different ear/brain thing (psychoacoustics?).

By the way, I'm seeing that the number of drivers is increasing on the newer models—the KZ Sonatas have up to 28 drivers—but those damned peaks in the trebles are still there. Are planar in-ears smoother and more regular in that region?

I'm not sure, but since there's almost no correlation between price and sound quality with IEMs and headphones, I doubt that more drivers automatically make it "better".

There are good reasons for 2-way and 3-way speakers. A big driver can't reproduce high frequencies and a small driver can't fill a room with strong bass. But a headphone or IEM doesn't need to "fill a room" with bass or move a lot of air.

Here is a quote from Amir,

I don't know why people are so fascinated with how some speaker/headphone is made. What matters are the results.

 

[blackstrat]

I finally ordered the KZ Libra X in the High Resolution version and the Castor Pro Harman on Aliexpress, since I'm not interested in headphones that pump out bass like we're at the disco.
Total: €14.30.

I also wanted to get the KZ PRX, but since I've never had an IEMs before, I want to see first what it's like to play (or listen to music) with my ears plugged. If everything goes as I hope, then I'll get some experience with a good planar IEMs.

 

[iGmole]

I finally ordered the KZ Libra X in the High Resolution version and the Castor Pro Harman on Aliexpress, since I'm not interested in headphones that pump out bass like we're at the disco.
Total: €14.30.

I also wanted to get the KZ PRX, but since I've never had an IEMs before, I want to see first what it's like to play (or listen to music) with my ears plugged. If everything goes as I hope, then I'll get some experience with a good planar IEMs.

Hmm, I wonder if you got the Libra X or High Resolution - the naming scheme is mildly confusing. Well, it' probably going to be a decent starting point either way.

The Castor Pro Harman should also be a good choice.

You have likely bought two perfectly usable IEMs for your use case, and it'll be a nice starting point. For not a lot of money you will now know if you need more isolation or a different sound, or if you can stand to use IEMs at all. Imagine spending hundreds and finding out your ear canals hurt.

Have fun!

 

[blackstrat]

Hmm, I wonder if you got the Libra X or High Resolution - the naming scheme is mildly confusing. Well, it' probably going to be a decent starting point either way.

I got these one (Resolution-NO MIC). I'm assuming this is the High Resolution version, not the Balanced version with enhanced bass.

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005008126255347.html

The thing that most confuses me is the dozens of models they have on their website; I've never seen anything like it. Sennheiser, AKG, and Shure have a limited number of headphones, with KZ it's as if they were launching a new product every two months.

Imagine spending hundreds and finding out your ear canals hurt.

That's exactly what I fear

 

[iGmole]

I got these one (Resolution-NO MIC). I'm assuming this is the High Resolution version, not the Balanced version with enhanced bass.

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005008126255347.html

The thing that most confuses me is the dozens of models they have on their website; I've never seen anything like it. Sennheiser, AKG, and Shure have a limited number of headphones, with KZ it's as if they were launching a new product every two months.


That's exactly what I fear

Ah, there is a third, especially awesome Libra - the X. But the high-res will get you started as well. You're right, the balanced is the bassy one (too much on stage) so you did alright.

KZ is a bit of a meme company with their number of new models per year. Impossible to keep up!

 

[blackstrat]

Ah, there is a third, especially awesome Libra - the X. But the high-res will get you started as well. You're right, the balanced is the bassy one (too much on stage) so you did alright.

So I got another version. These are the model you were talking about.

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005008140843704.html

There are the Libra X and the Angelears Libra X. It's related to the problem I mentioned yesterday: too many models, often with very similar names that end up confusing the buyer.

PS: on Amazon the model I bought is called KZ X Angelears Libra

https://www.amazon.com/Angelears-Ultra-Wide-Frequency-Earphone-Replaceable/dp/B0DDSZNXWG?th=1

 

[iGmole]

So I got another version. These are the model you were talking about.

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005008140843704.html

There are the Libra X and the Angelears Libra X. It's related to the problem I mentioned yesterday: too many models, often with very similar names that end up confusing the buyer.

PS: on Amazon the model I bought is called KZ X Angelears Libra

https://www.amazon.com/Angelears-Ultra-Wide-Frequency-Earphone-Replaceable/dp/B0DDSZNXWG?th=1

Uh oh, looks like even I was a little confused there, but don't worry, your purchase was likely fine, and basically Starbucks money

Amazon and aliexpress sellers do not always help with their product titles and descriptions. I usually order my KZ iems from kztws.com. I have a hobby of collecting their budget models.

 

[blackstrat]

Uh oh, looks like even I was a little confused there, but don't worry, your purchase was likely fine, and basically Starbucks money

Amazon and aliexpress sellers do not always help with their product titles and descriptions. I usually order my KZ iems from kztws.com. I have a hobby of collecting their budget models.

Maybe I understood. There are 3 version, Black Balanced, Black High Resolution (the one I bought) and White, but it's always the same IEM despite of the description. Some sellers label them as Libra X, other as Angelears Libra X or Angelears X Libra. OTH, the shape is the same, with the two slits on the side.

KZ Libra

Product model : Libra Impedance ：25 Ω Frequency ：20-40000Hz Sensitivity：108dB Pin Type：0.75mm Plug type ：3.5 MM / Type C Cable Type：Silver-plated cable Cable length：120士5cm Wearing type：In-ear

www.kztws.com

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005008126255347.html

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005008140843704.html

Anyway, a catalogue with 65 wired IEMs is too much. I'd like to hear all 65 of them to see what the differences are between one and the other...

 

[iGmole]

Maybe I understood. There are 3 version, Black Balanced, Black High Resolution, White, but it's always the same IEM despite of the description. Some sellers label them as Libra X, other as Angelears Libra X or Angelears X Libra. OTH, the shape is the same, with the two slits on the side.

KZ Libra

Product model : Libra Impedance ：25 Ω Frequency ：20-40000Hz Sensitivity：108dB Pin Type：0.75mm Plug type ：3.5 MM / Type C Cable Type：Silver-plated cable Cable length：120士5cm Wearing type：In-ear

www.kztws.com

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005008126255347.html

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005008140843704.html

Anyway, a catalogue with 65 wired IEMs is too much...

The tuning is a bit different in all of them with the White one being my personal favourite of the Libras. But I've used the Black Hires live as well and it was quite eargasmic to play, especially since the mixing console and microphones for all the instruments we're of very good quality.

I've used also Vader Balanced and ZVX Pro in the studio (drum sessions) where the IEM bass is no problem because you aren't sitting on top of subwoofers.

 

[Mr Vinyl]

First post for my first IEMs.
Big premise: I play electric guitar and I will use them at home to create my guitar sounds and then in the rehearsal room/stage with the band, so I need an IEM that's flat across the frequencies, something analytical and revealing, not a "warm" IEM for music listening.
Second: I'd rather spend a little more on a set of IEMs that sounds good and lasts a long time, than on a €20 IEM that drills into my ears.

KZs are often recommended, such as the ZSM and ZX10 Pro, but judging by their response curves, they don't seem suitable for music production or critical listening. They are very mid scooped with pronounced peaks in the 3-5 kHz region, which are very critical frequencies for electric guitars (harsh sound).
I've read good reviews about the Moondrop Aria, Dunu Titan S, and Final Audio A4000, I read that they are much more neutral, even if their frequency response curve shows that they are mid scopped too (perhaps because of the type of headphones? a common feature of all IEMs?). Do you have any experience with these?
As you may have guessed I'm in the $100 budget zone, it's my first IEM and a 500$ IEM is a big no for the moment.

Hi Blackstrat,

If you ever consider a planar iem with the characteristics you're looking for, consider the the 7Hz Dioko. I have this and the Hexa. Both are great but the Dioko has a little less warmth and is gorgeously neutral from one end to another. The highs are airy with zero harshness (and no exaggerated bump in the upper midrange like many) and the bass only slightly rises below 200Hz, avoiding any boomy sound. It has a very open and effortless sound at lower volumes.

 

[blackstrat]

In the end I bought a pair of KZ Libras Hi-Res and a pair of KZ Castor Pro on Aliexpress. I won't bore you with a review (at least for now ) but I can say that after a first listen I think I slightly prefer the Libra.
I find both of them a bit mid scooped, perhaps because they're tuned to the Harman curve, I'd probably prefer truly flat-response IEMs, but that's not a problem. After all that's just my monitor earphone, the audience will always hear something different through the PA.

 

[iGmole]

In the end I bought a pair of KZ Libras Hi-Res and a pair of KZ Castor Pro on Aliexpress. I won't bore you with a review (at least for now ) but I can say that after a first listen I think I slightly prefer the Libra.
I find both of them a bit mid scooped, perhaps because they're tuned to the Harman curve, I'd probably prefer truly flat-response IEMs, but that's not a problem. After all that's just my monitor earphone, the audience will always hear something different through the PA.

Now you have a baseline for your preference for pennies. You can make more educated guesses now, if you are ever shopping for a new pair. You'll get s rough idea from an IEMs performance from measurements (ASR, squig.link). Your Libras will be on squig and you can compare.