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IEM Cable suggestions please? - I've lost confidence in stock IEM cables

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OK1

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Hello I need to try out some cable options? Why? I have to my greatest shock, discovered that cables do make a difference, with IEMs. In particular, some of the stock cables, provided with budget IEMs i.e KZ, seem to cancel out the bass, leaving a rather tinny response. I have no clue why, but I'm not dreaming this, that is what I am hearing.

I was checking some perceived anomalies on a KZ SAGA Balanced IEM, and wanted to eliminate a faulty cable as the source of the issue, and I discovered that cables do not sound the same, contrary to everything that is asserted from many reliable sources.

The non stock, KBEAR 4 cable seems a bit better than the stock KZ cable, and a bit clearer, but not by much.

Stock cables for my ARTTI T10, seem to deliver more bass, when used with any other IEM. I did not expect this at all., and it attenuates the high frequencies.

The stock cable that came with the 7HZ Zero 2, seems to be very clear and open things up, but it kills the bass.

What I really want is :

  1. Please suggest a few good inexpensive cables I could buy, and compare. I am especially interested in modular cables, as I have a Dongle DAC with both balanced and unbalanced outputs and I want to explore any sonic variations that this could have, ideally when more power is available on the balanced output, and see if this has any positive or negative effect on the sound of an IEM.

  2. What characteristics of cables, could be causing such a noticeable change in the sound of an IEM? If I know these characteristics, I can use that to choose one which ideally does not add nor subtract from the audio, in any way, i.e just neutral as it should be.
I feel all this cable palava, may be the cause of our different opinions on some IEMs, yeah - especially if some are using the stock cables, which definitely do not sound the same as any other cables, when I did this cable swop.

Thanks in advance, looking forward to your suggestions, and any explanations,.
 
Hello I need to try out some cable options? Why? I have to my greatest shock, discovered that cables do make a difference, with IEMs. In particular, some of the stock cables, provided with budget IEMs i.e KZ, seem to cancel out the bass, leaving a rather tinny response. I have no clue why, but I'm not dreaming this, that is what I am hearing.

I was checking some perceived anomalies on a KZ SAGA Balanced IEM, and wanted to eliminate a faulty cable as the source of the issue, and I discovered that cables do not sound the same, contrary to everything that is asserted from many reliable sources.

The non stock, KBEAR 4 cable seems a bit better than the stock KZ cable, and a bit clearer, but not by much.

Stock cables for my ARTTI T10, seem to deliver more bass, when used with any other IEM. I did not expect this at all., and it attenuates the high frequencies.

The stock cable that came with the 7HZ Zero 2, seems to be very clear and open things up, but it kills the bass.

What I really want is :

  1. Please suggest a few good inexpensive cables I could buy, and compare. I am especially interested in modular cables, as I have a Dongle DAC with both balanced and unbalanced outputs and I want to explore any sonic variations that this could have, ideally when more power is available on the balanced output, and see if this has any positive or negative effect on the sound of an IEM.

  2. What characteristics of cables, could be causing such a noticeable change in the sound of an IEM? If I know these characteristics, I can use that to choose one which ideally does not add nor subtract from the audio, in any way, i.e just neutral as it should be.
I feel all this cable palava, may be the cause of our different opinions on some IEMs, yeah - especially if some are using the stock cables, which definitely do not sound the same as any other cables, when I did this cable swop.

Thanks in advance, looking forward to your suggestions, and any explanations,.
Many cheap IEMs use excessively thin stranded wire to save on copper. Furthermore, cheap aluminum-copper alloys are increasingly being used in this area. Poor soldering or welding is another issue.
This can lead to some limitations, especially in the bass range.
With cables that have a sufficient cross-section, pure copper, and good workmanship, you won't notice any difference in sound.
But unfortunately, wasting a lot of money is no guarantee of good cables.

I've been making my own cables for over 30 years and therefore don't have these problems.
 
provided with budget IEMs i.e KZ, seem to cancel out the bass, leaving a rather tinny response. I have no clue why

You might have a broken ground wire. A broken ground* to a headphone or in-ears will create a "center channel vocal remover" effect. Since the bass is also in the center it gets killed too along with everything else that's identical and in-phase in both channels. Usually you don't get complete vocal removal but the centered lead vocals are reduced and vocal reverb often remains.

A broken ground will also kill the stereo... If you have a way to disconnect the left or right input, or if you have another way of turning-off one channel with a balance control or by making a file with sound in only one channel, it will still come-out in both ears (and the bass will come back).





* This doesn't happen with speakers because the left & right have separate grounds. But you can get the same effect if you connect both speaker grounds together and disconnect the ground from the amplifier.
 
Many cheap IEMs use excessively thin stranded wire to save on copper. Furthermore, cheap aluminum-copper alloys are increasingly being used in this area. Poor soldering or welding is another issue.
This can lead to some limitations, especially in the bass range.
With cables that have a sufficient cross-section, pure copper, and good workmanship, you won't notice any difference in sound.
But unfortunately, wasting a lot of money is no guarantee of good cables.

I've been making my own cables for over 30 years and therefore don't have these problems.

You are a live saver. Thank you. On some other occasions, when I have shared my experience of hearing a change in frequency response, from different cables, the response has not been accommodating.

I think you have nailed this issue on the head.

Why?

1. I did another test today, with 4 different cables, and without boring you with the details, it turned out that there was a relationship between the cross section of the cable and the end result I was hearing. 3 cables were relatively thinner, and the more substantial cable, just seemed to come from a different world, producing copious amounts of bass, with an IEM, that seemed rather limp in the bass, on all other 3 cables. Matches your response.

2. It is impossible to really know what these cables are made of, and how well they are manufactured, and what the quality control is like.

3. I had left an opinion on another forum, earlier today, which I'll summarize here. With many other elements of the audio chain, thankfully we have lots of measurements published by the manufacturer, which can be independently verified, so by and large they tend NOT to make false claims, cos that would be quite damaging, also I do not think any credible manufacturer is in the business of making false claims. We have good measurements for DACs, Amplifiers, Headphone amplifiers, and with IEMs and headphones, we are provided with input impedance, sensitivity, and some description of the driver arrangement, so at least we can make an informed decision, without having to do our own tests.

But with cables, such as headphone cables, not much seems to exist, in terms of actionable information, about the parameters which affect audio quality.

In the professional audio world, while most of the time, no one bothers to give any details about their cables, e.g the likes of Shure, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamics, about the only thing stated on their headphone cabling specs, is length, termination at both ends, maybe info about coiled or straight, and that's all folks. No further information. But in these cases, the cables provided, at least from what I can see - are nice and chunky.

It amazes me, why anyone would sell an IEM, and bundle a cable with it that degraded the sound. I really cannot get past that. But my experience confirms this. When I take my budget IEMs, and use them with the stock cable from my more expensive IEM, they sound better - much better. That was a shock, cos I never could imagine that budget would imply a compromise on the most important aspect of an audio product - how it sounds. Those who make IEMs should know teh impact cables have on their products, and I was truly amazed that they would dumb down their own product, by bundling an inferior cable, which degrades the otherwise decent potential of their IEMs.

With things like guitar cables or professional audio cables, for studios or live audio, they publish specs, such as inductance, capacitance, which could have impact on the sonic results, and you can use this information in your decision making.

With headphone cables, as a rule, any proper definition of things like cable impedance(or would is be more correctly expressed as resistance), are not stated. So as you have said, even if you are willing to spend money on a better cable, you really do not know what you are buying, and have no objective way to prequalify products, to prefer one over another!

Pretty sad.

I have thought about making cables, but need a bit of help, I have an idea where to get connectors from on AliEpress, but may need help with choosing the right products for the unterminated cables (or cable spools). I can solder, if I had to. Many years ago I did make audio cables, and can do some soldering, but have not had to do any of this for about 18 or more years, cos cables for most audio in professional audio are now "ready made", and I just order what I need in the right length.

If you could point me in the right direction, with hints , I would be most glad and grateful.

Thank you for your most kind response.
 
You might have a broken ground wire. A broken ground* to a headphone or in-ears will create a "center channel vocal remover" effect. Since the bass is also in the center it gets killed too along with everything else that's identical and in-phase in both channels. Usually you don't get complete vocal removal but the centered lead vocals are reduced and vocal reverb often remains.

A broken ground will also kill the stereo... If you have a way to disconnect the left or right input, or if you have another way of turning-off one channel with a balance control or by making a file with sound in only one channel, it will still come-out in both ears (and the bass will come back).





* This doesn't happen with speakers because the left & right have separate grounds. But you can get the same effect if you connect both speaker grounds together and disconnect the ground from the amplifier.
Thank you for your comments.

Indeed it is possible that one or more of the cables I have been using are faulty.

My plan now is to identify and purchase, or DIY my own cables.
 
Wire resistance is a combination of diameter and length. (Wire Resistance Chart)

FYI - Resistance and impedance are both "resistance to current flow" and both are measured in Ohms.

Ideally, the wire resistance (along with the output impedance of whatever is driving it) should be 1/10th or less of the headphone/in-ear impedance. (We don't want to "match" the impedance.) Usually, the headphone amplifier's output impedance is a bigger problem than the wire resistance.

The amplifier's source impedance and wire resistance along with the load (headphones/in-ears/speakers) create a Voltage Divider where the amplifier & wiring are the "top" resistor and the headphones/in-ears are the "bottom" resistor. i.e. Voltage is proportionally lost across the amplifier's output impedance and wire resistance before it gets to the load.

22AWG copper wire is about 16 Ohms for 1000 feet. 10 feet (x2 for the "round trip") would be 0.32 Ohms. Not that bad with 10 Ohm in-ears. But your wires could be thinner...

If you are getting loss in wiring you can also get frequency response variations. That's because the headphone/in-ear/speaker impedance isn't "flat" across the frequency range... The bottom impedance in the voltage divider changes with frequency. Where there is a bump-up in impedance there will be a bump-up in frequency response (and vice-versa). Headphones, in-ears, and speakers tested and specified with a low-impedance source so that doesn't happen and that's the ideal way to drive them.

Impedance and Frequency Response
 
1. I did another test today, with 4 different cables, and without boring you with the details, it turned out that there was a relationship between the cross section of the cable and the end result I was hearing. 3 cables were relatively thinner, and the more substantial cable, just seemed to come from a different world, producing copious amounts of bass, with an IEM, that seemed rather limp in the bass, on all other 3 cables. Matches your response.

Obviously the fatter the cable then the easier to pass fat bass through them,
 
Wire resistance is a combination of diameter and length. (Wire Resistance Chart)

FYI - Resistance and impedance are both "resistance to current flow" and both are measured in Ohms.

Ideally, the wire resistance (along with the output impedance of whatever is driving it) should be 1/10th or less of the headphone/in-ear impedance. (We don't want to "match" the impedance.) Usually, the headphone amplifier's output impedance is a bigger problem than the wire resistance.

The amplifier's source impedance and wire resistance along with the load (headphones/in-ears/speakers) create a Voltage Divider where the amplifier & wiring are the "top" resistor and the headphones/in-ears are the "bottom" resistor. i.e. Voltage is proportionally lost across the amplifier's output impedance and wire resistance before it gets to the load.

22AWG copper wire is about 16 Ohms for 1000 feet. 10 feet (x2 for the "round trip") would be 0.32 Ohms. Not that bad with 10 Ohm in-ears. But your wires could be thinner...

If you are getting loss in wiring you can also get frequency response variations. That's because the headphone/in-ear/speaker impedance isn't "flat" across the frequency range... The bottom impedance in the voltage divider changes with frequency. Where there is a bump-up in impedance there will be a bump-up in frequency response (and vice-versa). Headphones, in-ears, and speakers tested and specified with a low-impedance source so that doesn't happen and that's the ideal way to drive them.

Impedance and Frequency Response
Thank you.
 
Found this. Just started reading through

 
My Truthear Red cable went on the fritz awhile back, so I changed it out for a Linsoul Tripowin. It is much thicker and better made than the OEM cable, so it is also a bit heavier. This means that I don't use this set of IEMs when I run, but they are fine for the gym. They make a ton of different variants, and they are all pretty cheap. The Tripowin Zonie I bought is a grand $18 on Amazon right now. In theory, any decent functioning cable should be fine for IEMs, unlike speaker wire where resistance can make a difference.
 
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Found this. Just started reading through

Thanks to everyone who contributed here, I have made some progress.

This is a whole new beginning, and I can imagine it may be a long journey, but I have made a start.

What am I definitely sure of at this point in time?

Definitely headphone cables can make a difference, a very audible difference. Of this there is no doubt. I have heard the difference from changing cables, with everything else in the audio chain being exactly the same. It is a pretty audible difference and a very easy one to hear. Thicker cables, more bass. Thinner cables, less bass. This I am 100% sure off.

In the professional audio or Hi-Fi over the ear headphone world, this is not an issue, because typically the supplied cables are decent enough, and the input impedance of the headphones is pretty high, so any extra resistance introduced by a substandard thin cable, may not have much on an impact on frequency response.

But in the IEM world, where I learnt that cables can make a difference, with lower input impedances, any small change in the resistance of the cable, becomes more significant. The thread I referred to earlier, has some examples where it makes a rough stab at calculating resistance on cables, based on the relevant factors, such as cable length, material the cable is made of, diameter of cable strands, number of cores, etc. It also documents well over a hundred actual measurements of resistance on IEM cables. With links to these cables.

When I started buying IEMs, I bought and still do buy some cheap, budget IEMs, from the budget king, KZ Knowledge Zenith, which once owned the sub brand CCA, so I also bought some CCA IEMs. What is common with all these budget IEMs, is they are supplied with the cheapest looking thinnest looking cable ever, and obviously this cable has a higher resistance than is desirable. So I was the guinea pig in a horrible experiment by these manufacturers. I realise now that for about 18 months, every time I listened to any of their IEMs, using their poorly specified cables, I was not hearing the true sound of the IEM. This is not limited to KZ/CCA. I also have a 7Hz Salnotes Zero 2, and sorry the cable supplied with this, is obviously way too thin.

And later on I invested in a somewhat better IEM, the ARTTI T10, which I now realise came with a better cable, and a lot of the audio improvement I was getting with the T10, in comparison to other IEMs, was the cable. And it has taken me over a year to figure this out.

I have since been able to estimate, based on information where available, the resistance of cables available to buy, and with this knowledge, I am now able to order with confidence, and have ordered one. In the interim, the only cable I listen through is the stock cable that was provided with the T10, all my other IEM cables are garbage, just looking at them, you can tell, they do not have much metal in them, are thin, with very few strands per core, and/or cores - typically no more than two cores. From the physics, clearly these cables will have a higher resistance.

Fun fact, when switching between balanced and unbalanced outputs of a dongle DAC - TempoTec Sonata BHD, I had always expected the difference to be about 6dB, i.e twice as loud, but in practice the balanced output was more like about 9 or 10 dB, and now I understand what could be the cause, the lower resistance on the more superior ARRTI T10 balanced cable, resulted in a further loudness of the audio, or to put it the other way, the poor quality cables I was using on the unbalanced output attenuated the audio, more than should have been the case, if the cables had similar resistance.

There is still a lot to learn, cos resistance is only one of the factors affecting the results of a specific cable. But I think this is the 70% factor, and that's what I'm focussing on, getting a few cables with different materials and a range of estimated resistances, and being able to hear them and compare them and validate for myself, in no uncertain terms, from my own listening, to be 100% sure of as many of the factors which determine the outcome of a headphone/IEM cable.

This is the cable I ordered, as one of those with the least resistance, based on my calculations, which is why I ordered it.

CVJ Flora Silver-Plated Wired Headphone Upgrade Cable - which is a modular cable with both 3.5mm and 4.4mm connectors. 0.78mm 2 pin. Was about £11, when I ordered it.

Link to product on AliExpress. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007917283382.html

1763309131152.png
 
My Truthear Red cable went on the fritz awhile back, so I changed it out for a Linsoul Tripowin. It is much thicker and better made than the OEM cable, so it is also a bit heavier. This means that I don't use this set of IEMs when I run, but they are fine for the gym. They make a ton of different variants, and they are all pretty cheap. The Tripowin Zonie I bought is a grand $18 on Amazon right now. In theory, any decent functioning cable should be fine for IEMs, unlike speaker wire where resistance can make a difference.
Thanks.

I have ordered a cable, details which I provided in another post. I am intending to order a variety of cables, an will include the Tripowin Zonie, in my considerations.

Thank you.
 
Taking a step back... This isn't a problem if the in-ear has higher impedance so it's not a common problem, and if the in-ear has constant impedance over the frequency range you won't get impedance-related frequency response variations.

Thicker cables, more bass. Thinner cables, less bass. This I am 100% sure off.
If the impedance rises in the bass range you could get a (relative) boost in bass (if you've got an "impedance problem").

The SEGA isn't reviewed here but 3 other KZ models are. One has rising impedance in the bass range which would cause a relative bass boost (more loss in the mid & high range) if the output & cable impedance is too high. The other two have very-flat impedance across the frequency range so you'd just get a dB loss.

I had always expected the difference to be about 6dB, i.e twice as loud, but in practice the balanced output was more like about 9 or 10 dB
Did you actually measure it somehow?

We usually don't know the circuit design. +6dB is common but it's possible for an unbalanced output to have equal or higher output voltage than a balanced output.

and now I understand what could be the cause, the lower resistance on the more superior ARRTI T10 balanced cable,
The dB loss in the cable should be the same. Typically the balanced output has twice output impedance which would make the problem worse, if the output impedance is contributing to the problem.
 
Taking a step back... This isn't a problem if the in-ear has higher impedance so it's not a common problem, and if the in-ear has constant impedance over the frequency range you won't get impedance-related frequency response variations.


If the impedance rises in the bass range you could get a (relative) boost in bass (if you've got an "impedance problem").

The SEGA isn't reviewed here but 3 other KZ models are. One has rising impedance in the bass range which would cause a relative bass boost (more loss in the mid & high range) if the output & cable impedance is too high. The other two have very-flat impedance across the frequency range so you'd just get a dB loss.


Did you actually measure it somehow?

We usually don't know the circuit design. +6dB is common but it's possible for an unbalanced output to have equal or higher output voltage than a balanced output.


The dB loss in the cable should be the same. Typically the balanced output has twice output impedance which would make the problem worse, if the output impedance is contributing to the problem.

When I get the cable I have ordered, the root cause of the variance should be resolved 100%. Same cable - modular has connectors for 3.5mm and 4.4mm, so I will check how things sound on the same DAC - TempoTec Sonata BHD. On the same IEM, as I switch between balanced and unbalanced outputs of the DAC.

Point taken. Indeed there will be a doubling of the output impedance from the balanced output, but this should be small, if we assume that the following is correct.

1. I could not find the output impedance stated on the manufacturer's specs.

2. Google indicates that it is most likely less than 1 ohm

1763316623638.png

3. One of the CS43131 implementations Shanling UA1, states the output impedance as 0.5 Ohm, but does not state if this applies to both outputs - balanced and unbalanced, on the Hifigo store web site.

Using the same cable, changing only the modular connectors, between balanced and unbalanced, should narrow down the issue. If there is no discernible change in frequency response as I listen on the same cable and IEM, between these outputs, then I can eliminate the DAC completely as the source of these FR variations.

Then next test will be - using the same unbalanced output and same IEM, switch between cables. I have already done this test, using the following thin looking 3.5mm terminated cables :

1. Stock all copper cable from KZ
2. Stock silver coated cable from KZ
3. Stock cable from Zero 2 IEM
4. KBEAR 4 - 4 core all copper cable, which I bought a while back.

I took notes, as I was swapping between them, they all sound different.

In the same test, I also added the following

5. Stock cable for the ARTTI T10, but this is a balanced cable so I had to use the balanced output and compensate volume accordingly in software, as best as my ears could.

The difference between 5 and the others was like night and day, in just a whole new completeness and balance in the music/speech/audio, like where did the bass go, on all the other cables.

I will repeat the test on the unbalanced output, with the new cable (with the 3.5mm modular connector attached), when it arrives, and share my impressions. Should be here in about a week from now.

I will also compare the new cable (using its 4.4 mm modular connector attached) and compare it with the ARTTI T10 balanced cable.
 
Got a few new cables.

1. CVJ Flora - Love the sound of this best, most 3D, with depth, and most accurate texture of all elements in the mix - both hard and soft elements are portrayed more accurately, deeper bass, less harsh but more accurate, snappier highs. Vocals sound so much more real, darker, like in real life. Overall the audio is more relaxed.

2. CVJ VS 400 - Smoother?. Texture seems initially somewhat veiled, transients are different. But on a proper listen, I sometimes feel this is the most transparent version of the truth., focus is a bit more on the higher frequencies, hear a bit more of breath sounds. This reminds me the most of professional studio speakers like Genelecs - matter of fact - here it is, definitely brighter overall than the CVJ Flora. Definitely seems a bit smoother, just a bit, than the CVJ Flora, but very clean, the decay of transients is snappier. best drum bass ever. Super Clean. Vocals are brighter. It's very hard to choose between this and the CVJ Flora. But they definitely do not sound the same. I seem to be able to hear the processing on especially the vocals, more, with this. Has a faster pace than the CVJ Flora.

The CVJ VS 400 sounds like a blend of the brightness of the KZ stock copper cables, but done properly, with superb attention to detail, without becoming harsh. Just super clean and super clear. Reminds me of the 1st time I heard digital recordings, when I bought my 1st CD Player and Compact Discs.

Only thing I am bothered about here, is that the bass seems less prominent. Question is - who knows which of these "mirrors" is telling us the truth.

3. QKZ T7 - OK but I prefer the CVJ Flora. May need to listen again, cos I only heard this once, or twice and my ears were tired after a long day of listening.

and then my older cables

4. ARRTI T10's stock cable - Sorry beaten by the CVJ Flora, this now sounds just OK, sad, cos this was once my best sounding cable for over a year.
5. A few KZ stock copper cables- As usual sound harsh, elevated mids, transients in high frequencies, lacking in sub bass. Brighter, not as pleasant.
6. One or two KZ stock silver plated copper cables. Did not bother to audition again, and compare
7. Zero 2 Stock cable - Did not bother to audition again, and compare
8. KBEAR 4 all copper cable - Did not bother to audition again, and compare

Listening on a GK Kunten, single dynamic driver IEM, via balanced and unbalanced outputs of a TempoTec Sonata BHD via ASIO on Windows.

It will take a long time to properly audition these cables, and that will remain an ongoing process.

I have a hypothesis. Or several. Beginning to sound like Newton's laws.

OK1's laws of IEM cables.

1. A cable does NOT add anything to the audio, but rather subtracts, or distorts, and this alteration is affected by properties of the cable, and its construction/manufacture. The difference one is able to hear in cables, comes from the extent to which they alter the audio.

I can imagine a future where DACs are incorporated into IEM's. And we never have to bother with analog cables, cos the amount of cable connecting the DAC to the Driver is negligible. This is already available in wireless IEMs. And if the DACs used in these are good, and the protocol is lossless, this may be the most transparent approach. No "cables".

I also consider that in typical Hi-Fi, this may be the value of active speakers, with digital inputs, minimising any influence of cables. Already active speakers minimise any effect of speaker cables, cos they typically use good quality cable, within the enclosure (we sincerely hope so), and these are short lengths of cable, cos the amps are close to the speakers. Now if the interconnect between the DAC and the AMP or DAC and active speaker, is also digital, this eliminates one more analog cable.

2. Low resistance does no harm, but there may be a U curve, with possibly an ideal resistance of the cable, above and below which is not ideal. I need more cables to test this hypothesis.

3. I think the plated cables, or any cable with different materials, may establish a scenario where audio travels differently in the cable. Now what do I mean by differently, could be altering frequency response, phase, timing. Something is not exactly the same in a composite cable. Is it possible that the junction between the different metals also acts like a reflector, or a prism.

Listening to the various cables, I find that the silver plated copper cables, all exhibit a similar characteristic, some more so than others. They add a bass element, almost like a bit of a tilt EQ, yet the very high frequencies are still interesting, still there, almost like a slight V-Shaped EQ, but leaning more into the bass. I also notice these supposedly deeper bass tones, are NOT as distinct as the all copper cables. Is it possible that these cables delay the arrival of bass frequencies? The stereo image is not quite as wide with these and vocals lack something in the mid-range. It sounds NICE, somewhat like listening to a Vintage recording, very pleasing, but NOT "tight" like listening on ALL copper cables.

It seems that what I am hearing as a "roomier" sound, with more "reverb", in the plated cables, is a delay, a delay in the bass frequencies. The transients are therefore somewhat softened, and the pace is slower, cos notes are elongated. I am definite about this. I can hear something in the audio, especially in the bass frequencies, which is supposedly enveloping and interesting, but has to be a delay of some of the lower frequencies.

The all copper cables, especially the CVJ VS 400, seems to have a precision, everything is snappy and tightly timed. Transients are excellent - and consistently so. To me, these sound the most accurate of all my cables.

The single copper cables, are therefore the more accurate ones. From my listening. They are without doubt clearer, have more actual clarity, with "tightness" of the entire audio spectrum happening at the same time.

Unfortunately the theoretical hypothesis is done. We now need others with the skills to test this hypothesis.

I came into this fully expecting the CVJ Flora to be the best sounding cable, cos it had the lowest estimated impedance, but my listening tests indicate, that impedance is only one factor. In a world where most IEM cables are silver plated copper, it is interesting to observe the sonic difference between these and the ALL copper cables.

And it is interesting that contrary to popular opinion, that the ALL copper cables are warmer, I hear this differently, that actually the plated cables are warmer - i.e deeper more bassy, but the ALL copper cables, definitely have less artefacts.

To put it another way, silver plated cables, have more "distortion", and an indistinctness, which I can hear, which I do not hear in ALL copper cables. The ALL copper cables definitely have much better timing. Much better timing, i.e the arrival of high and low frequencies, are closer in time for ALL copper cables. Albeit the silver plated copper cables, subjectively sound more "interesting"... and larger than life, but this is similar to the appeal of a distorted electric guitar - definitely sounds interesting, but not as accurate as the pure sound from the strings.
 
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I have a hypothesis. Or several. Beginning to sound like Newton's laws.

So do I, you’re taking this too far.
 
Got a few new cables.

1. CVJ Flora - Love the sound of this best, most 3D, with depth, and most accurate texture of all elements in the mix - both hard and soft elements are portrayed more accurately, deeper bass, less harsh but more accurate, snappier highs. Vocals sound so much more real, darker, like in real life. Overall the audio is more relaxed.

2. CVJ VS 400 - Smoother?. Texture seems initially somewhat veiled, transients are different. But on a proper listen, I sometimes feel this is the most transparent version of the truth., focus is a bit more on the higher frequencies, hear a bit more of breath sounds. This reminds me the most of professional studio speakers like Genelecs - matter of fact - here it is, definitely brighter overall than the CVJ Flora. Definitely seems a bit smoother, just a bit, than the CVJ Flora, but very clean, the decay of transients is snappier. best drum bass ever. Super Clean. Vocals are brighter. It's very hard to choose between this and the CVJ Flora. But they definitely do not sound the same. I seem to be able to hear the processing on especially the vocals, more, with this. Has a faster pace than the CVJ Flora.

The CVJ VS 400 sounds like a blend of the brightness of the KZ stock copper cables, but done properly, with superb attention to detail, without becoming harsh. Just super clean and super clear. Reminds me of the 1st time I heard digital recordings, when I bought my 1st CD Player and Compact Discs.

Only thing I am bothered about here, is that the bass seems less prominent. Question is - who knows which of these "mirrors" is telling us the truth.

3. QKZ T7 - OK but I prefer the CVJ Flora. May need to listen again, cos I only heard this once, or twice and my ears were tired after a long day of listening.

and then my older cables

4. ARRTI T10's stock cable - Sorry beaten by the CVJ Flora, this now sounds just OK, sad, cos this was once my best sounding cable for over a year.
5. A few KZ stock copper cables- As usual sound harsh, elevated mids, transients in high frequencies, lacking in sub bass. Brighter, not as pleasant.
6. One or two KZ stock silver plated copper cables. Did not bother to audition again, and compare
7. Zero 2 Stock cable - Did not bother to audition again, and compare
8. KBEAR 4 all copper cable - Did not bother to audition again, and compare

Listening on a GK Kunten, single dynamic driver IEM, via balanced and unbalanced outputs of a TempoTec Sonata BHD via ASIO on Windows.

It will take a long time to properly audition these cables, and that will remain an ongoing process.

I have a hypothesis. Or several. Beginning to sound like Newton's laws.

OK1's laws of IEM cables.

1. A cable does NOT add anything to the audio, but rather subtracts, or distorts, and this alteration is affected by properties of the cable, and its construction/manufacture. The difference one is able to hear in cables, comes from the extent to which they alter the audio.

I can imagine a future where DACs are incorporated into IEM's. And we never have to bother with analog cables, cos the amount of cable connecting the DAC to the Driver is negligible. This is already available in wireless IEMs. And if the DACs used in these are good, and the protocol is lossless, this may be the most transparent approach. No "cables".

I also consider that in typical Hi-Fi, this may be the value of active speakers, with digital inputs, minimising any influence of cables. Already active speakers minimise any effect of speaker cables, cos they typically use good quality cable, within the enclosure (we sincerely hope so), and these are short lengths of cable, cos the amps are close to the speakers. Now if the interconnect between the DAC and the AMP or DAC and active speaker, is also digital, this eliminates one more analog cable.

2. Low resistance does no harm, but there may be a U curve, with possibly an ideal resistance of the cable, above and below which is not ideal. I need more cables to test this hypothesis.

3. I think the plated cables, or any cable with different materials, may establish a scenario where audio travels differently in the cable. Now what do I mean by differently, could be altering frequency response, phase, timing. Something is not exactly the same in a composite cable. Is it possible that the junction between the different metals also acts like a reflector, or a prism.

Listening to the various cables, I find that the silver plated copper cables, all exhibit a similar characteristic, some more so than others. They add a bass element, almost like a bit of a tilt EQ, yet the very high frequencies are still interesting, still there, almost like a slight V-Shaped EQ, but leaning more into the bass. I also notice these supposedly deeper bass tones, are NOT as distinct as the all copper cables. Is it possible that these cables delay the arrival of bass frequencies? The stereo image is not quite as wide with these and vocals lack something in the mid-range. It sounds NICE, somewhat like listening to a Vintage recording, very pleasing, but NOT "tight" like listening on ALL copper cables.

It seems that what I am hearing as a "roomier" sound, with more "reverb", in the plated cables, is a delay, a delay in the bass frequencies. The transients are therefore somewhat softened, and the pace is slower, cos notes are elongated. I am definite about this. I can hear something in the audio, especially in the bass frequencies, which is supposedly enveloping and interesting, but has to be a delay of some of the lower frequencies.

The all copper cables, especially the CVJ VS 400, seems to have a precision, everything is snappy and tightly timed. Transients are excellent - and consistently so. To me, these sound the most accurate of all my cables.

The single copper cables, are therefore the more accurate ones. From my listening. They are without doubt clearer, have more actual clarity, with "tightness" of the entire audio spectrum happening at the same time.

Unfortunately the theoretical hypothesis is done. We now need others with the skills to test this hypothesis.

I came into this fully expecting the CVJ Flora to be the best sounding cable, cos it had the lowest estimated impedance, but my listening tests indicate, that impedance is only one factor. In a world where most IEM cables are silver plated copper, it is interesting to observe the sonic difference between these and the ALL copper cables.

And it is interesting that contrary to popular opinion, that the ALL copper cables are warmer, I hear this differently, that actually the plated cables are warmer - i.e deeper more bassy, but the ALL copper cables, definitely have less artefacts.

To put it another way, silver plated cables, have more "distortion", and an indistinctness, which I can hear, which I do not hear in ALL copper cables. The ALL copper cables definitely have much better timing. Much better timing, i.e the arrival of high and low frequencies, are closer in time for ALL copper cables. Albeit the silver plated copper cables, subjectively sound more "interesting"... and larger than life, but this is similar to the appeal of a distorted electric guitar - definitely sounds interesting, but not as accurate as the pure sound from the strings.


I'll quote from a knowledgeable user here in ASR, solderdude:

People have a tendency to overestimate their hearing capabilities.
Use your ears to listen to music not as an analyzer.

The implications of this quote is twofold: for we to actually substantiate what you're saying in objective terms, we would have to measure the cables with an analyzer (or a iem measurement device/coupler); your hearing is not an absolute instrument, you're not immune to bias. That's why, to further test the replicability of your assertions, you should at least do the observations blindly, else you're prone to hear characteristics from each cable that are simply due to its color, its price, your liking for the texture, etc.

If you're having fun doing all of these impressions, though, I am not the one to judge. But be mindful of said limitations, lest you spiral out into the heavy snake oil inside the industry.
 
I'll quote from a knowledgeable user here in ASR, solderdude:



The implications of this quote is twofold: for we to actually substantiate what you're saying in objective terms, we would have to measure the cables with an analyzer (or a iem measurement device/coupler); your hearing is not an absolute instrument, you're not immune to bias. That's why, to further test the replicability of your assertions, you should at least do the observations blindly, else you're prone to hear characteristics from each cable that are simply due to its color, its price, your liking for the texture, etc.

If you're having fun doing all of these impressions, though, I am not the one to judge. But be mindful of said limitations, lest you spiral out into the heavy snake oil inside the industry.
Thank you, for the warning about snake oil products, and I fully take this on board.

The last thing I would do is waste money on products with no audible results., and especially with no logic to explain why they are better.

The foundation for all this, came from observing that the stock cables that were delivered with some of my cheap budget IEMs, did not deliver the same result sound wise, as the stock cable that was delivered with my more expensive ARTTI T10 IEM. And I've been aiming to understand :

1. Why am I hearing a difference?
2. What criteria should I be using to choose a "good" IEM cable, in the event that the stock cables I have are NOT good enough?

In doing all this, I definitely want to, as much as I am capable of understanding, get to the bottom of the WHY, to know when I have reached the sweet spot of ample quality, beyond which spending any more delivers negligible sonic improvements. So there is absolutely no way, I would spiral out and be hoodwinked by the snake oil merchants. Impossible.

At this point in time, and apologies for not having included this, in the previous post, my focus has been to identify the top criteria, that help in narrowing down what to buy, and exactly that, AVOID, paying over the odds, and AVOID paying for voodoo science, that does not make sense.

The one thing I am sure of, from quite a bit of research on my part, is that I am NOT mistaken, or hearing things. Indeed cables can make a difference to sound, in headphones, and IEMs, especially if there is something fundamentally wrong with the cable. Some of my stock cheapo headphones, have green oxidised metal (most likely oxidised copper) which is visible to the naked eye, in the transparent rubber covering, close to the QDC connector which plugs into the IEM ear piece. Who knows what the impact of that is? Maybe that is what is causing them to sound different.

In acquiring the recent cables, my focus was to narrow down one thing. Get low resistance cables. I have not measured this on my cables, yet, but I undertook an elaborate estimation of the cable resistance based on factors such as the number of threads, thread diameter, cores, what they are made of, and how long the cable is, and assuming some resistance from connectors and cable termination. From another thread on head-fi.com, someone kindly provide the formula for computing resistance of an IEM cable.

All cables I have bought in recent times, have been acquired based on this logic - low resistance, with an assumption, that any manufacturer who bothered to make low resistance cables, would also be likely to have addressed other areas such as inductance and capacitance of the cable. Of course this is an assumption, and the only one I can estimate before buying cables. And, rather than it lead to snake oil, it has actually been the reverse, because I am focussing on very specific criteria, such as low resistance, low inductance and low capacitance, it has helped me avoid many expensive cables, which do NOT meet, or are not likely to meet the criteria I set.

In choosing cables, I set a threshold of 0.2 Ohms as the maximum acceptable resistance. All the cables I have bought, which from my estimates, fall within this benchmark, I was also able to purchase for no more than £10 each. One of the cables is about £5. I do have a more expensive cable in mind, but its not an astronomical cost - £15, and justified cos the estimated resistance of this cable, is 0.11Ohms approx. Which is really low, for the price. So cost is definitely one of my criteria, further to any other technical criteria such as low resistance, being met.

So far, this has proven, to my hearing that :

1. It is possible to get very well made, really nice looking IEM cables, including features such as modular termination (swappable 2.5mm/3.5mm/4.4mm headphone plugs), for not much money, typically less than £10 each., which have impressively low resistance below 0.2 Ohms

2. The 3 new cables I have reviewed, have estimated resistance lower than or about equal to the lowest impedance cable I had - the ARTTI T10 cable.

3. I can hear improvements in the sonics, over and above all my prior stock cables, and also hear differences between the new cables, I recently acquired. It is not conclusive yet, but I think there is a relationship between the plating and the way a cable sounds. I'll do some further listening over the next month.

So low resistance cables, in my opinion, which do not adversely affect the audio, are durable and look good cosmetically, can be bought for not much money, if one is able to pre-estimate their resistance, which fortunately I now am able to (if I have enough information about the cable). And there are a good number of cables out there with enough published specs, to enable me estimate their resistance.

That already addresses the snake oil concern. Based on sensible criteria as outlined above, one actually avoids snake oil., and gets maximum value for any money spent.

If it transpires, that the hypothesis of a single material conductor being better than those made from composites - i.e more than one conductor such as silver plated copper, is correct, that would further lower the cost of any cables I would be acquiring - i.e all they need to be made of is Copper, nothing more. And copper is the cheapest good conductor out there. !!, which completely excludes any snake oil cabling. It does not come cheaper than simple copper. If this be the case, and I can prove that it is so, then the snake oil out there, the major one being silver coated copper, would have been debunked, and would be avoided, in any future purchases.

May I add, cos this is not obvious and I have not mentioned this yet, I have discovered that all one needs if copper is one of the conductors, is just that copper, high purity copper of 99.9% is good enough. Most of the budget and lowest cost IEM cables, costing below £10, and some below £5, already meet this criteria, so I will not be considering super purified copper which is much more expensive, cos I have deduced and from reliable sources, confirmed that such expensive super refined copper or any other conductor for that matter, purer than 99.9%, adds no further benefit to their ability to conduct audio.

All my investments (including during this experimental phase), have been, and will be, based on good logic, and not a penny will be wasted on any snake oil.
 
Jesus man…….…….:facepalm: ……stop fretting and composing diary entries to yourself, just chill out and listen to music
 
That's what the ignore feature is for. It's there for a reason. You chill, and ignore my posts. You do not have to read them.

Jesus man…….…….:facepalm: ……stop fretting and composing diary entries to yourself, just chill out and listen to music
 
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