I don't know where you are, but the ones in the Netherlands have been tested properly, and heat pump dryers save a lot of energy, and by now don't cost much more. It is true, however, that all these modern washing machines, dryers and dishwashers take rather longer, but who cares? See here for some data: https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/product-list/household-washer-dryers_enI bought a new "Energy Efficient" LG Dryer and it's no more efficient than my 25 year old unit. It tries to reduce energy by turning off the heating element but then the load runs twice as long. If you are willing to wait 2x-3x as long you might save 5% in energy but maybe not. As this design is a bit stupid the controls also offer "Manual" mode which costs 5 cents more to run but gets the load dry in 30 minutes instead of 82. It's an energy Ponzi scheme. Luckily, other "Energy saving" devices save more, but a heat pump dryer can never be paid for in energy savings at 3x the purchase price.
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idle power consumption class–a vs class–d
- Thread starter SkipperGW
- Start date
I measure my "systems" power consumption from time to time with my basic inline power consumption meter. I found an old log from 2021, and here's the results;
So audio equipment can no doubt consume some power, but a PC can too, and it can be quite unsuspecting. Even if you are running something lowely like a ryzen-5/core-i5, you might be pulling 70watts with it only doing basic desktop things. And don't forget the "display", especially if you're still rocking a plasma TV
Meanwhile a mini-PC with something like an Intel N100 CPU can "do the same" @ 10W.
- Emotiva UPA-2 amp power passive bookshelf speakers: idle = 0.8w; on with no music = 32w; on at loud volume = 52w.
- Yamaha home-theater subwoofer (basic sort): on with no music = 7w; on at normal volume = 8w; on at loud volume = 15w.
- PC on standbuy, WakeOnLan disabled: ErP enabled = 4.2W; ErP disabled = 2.7W.
- monitor? (only got standbuy recorded, 27" 1440P = 0.7W)
- PC playing music + 1 browser playing YT vid + 1 browser scrolling FB = 128Watts!!!!
- PC playing music + playing game with GPU throttled @ 55% = 288W.
- PC playing music + playing game with GPU @ 100% = 458W.
So audio equipment can no doubt consume some power, but a PC can too, and it can be quite unsuspecting. Even if you are running something lowely like a ryzen-5/core-i5, you might be pulling 70watts with it only doing basic desktop things. And don't forget the "display", especially if you're still rocking a plasma TV
Meanwhile a mini-PC with something like an Intel N100 CPU can "do the same" @ 10W.This is exactly what I did some time ago: an Intel NUC i7 (I needed the performance) replaced an old desktop that consumed some 400 watts. Financially it was certainly worthwhile. The new screen is much larger and better, and nevertheless consumes only half of what the old one did. Such technical innovation is encouraged by the combination of mandatory regulation for the initial push on the one hand , and market incentives for widespread adoption on the other.
Heating element, lolz. That doesn't sound like a heat pump based model to me. Perhaps whilst purchasing your dryer you have succumb to green-washing?
Anyway, here's a riddle for you - how much does a clothes dryer cost to run during a winter storm in Texas? Answer = $0, because the grid has likely failed
You could get a smart plug with a remote control to turn on everything (I think some auto turn-off with no load after x time too?). Also, there are plugs that turn on peripherals when they notice a main device is drawing power. It is usually for PCs, but might work for your application too.
If you go round the house doing checking power consumption (with a measuring plug-device), you notice places where electricity is being eaten up. For example, some basic wireless routers consume about 5 or 6 watts at idle, when others more advanced ones can consume 50 watts. 50 watts over years 24/7 can be a lot of money.
It is the graphics card that pulls huge amounts of watts, even at idle. A current ryzen or core processor with integrated graphics pulls quite low watts, say 20-40 watts at minimal load (browser with a few tabs).
You are right, it is all up to personal situation. The US has very low energy costs compared to UK/EU in general. What are your rates per kwh?
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Sure, this is how to do the sums, although the lost interest should be added to the investment cost as well. The picture changes with different prices, however: over here heat pump dryers are not that much more expensive: a high end model from the best and most expensive brand (Miele) costs 1250 euros: Miele TSF 763 WP EcoSpeed Miele do not seem to make anything other than heat pump dryers anymore. Another major brand, Bosch/Siemens, are cheaper at 850 euros, and also only seem to have heatpump dryers. Both the Miele and the Bosch dryer have the best EU energy efficiency classification (A+++). So at EU prices (incl 21% Value Added Tax) modern heat pump dryers are now cheap and universal. That is good news because our electricity is expensive, currently at about 0.30 per kWh, unless of course you have solar panels.
About 1/4 to 1/3 of our prices. Lucky you!
JeremyFife
Major Contributor
Hi, hope this is not too off topic.
What is starting to interest me is the heat implication of higher idle power and the effect on component lifetime. Those Watts have to go somewhere - heat - so are components designed for that heat?
Specifically, are the cheaper Class D amps designed for that heat? I'm calling out 'cheaper' examples as they are more likely to want to reduce component costs and I'm thinking about Class D since they are cooler in operation and thermal management may be focussed on operating (short term) heat rather than idle (long term) heat.
Any thoughts?
What is starting to interest me is the heat implication of higher idle power and the effect on component lifetime. Those Watts have to go somewhere - heat - so are components designed for that heat?
Specifically, are the cheaper Class D amps designed for that heat? I'm calling out 'cheaper' examples as they are more likely to want to reduce component costs and I'm thinking about Class D since they are cooler in operation and thermal management may be focussed on operating (short term) heat rather than idle (long term) heat.
Any thoughts?
Do you have a standing charge per day? We have daily standing charges of 50p going up to 62p for electricity soon. My gas usage is very minimal, I think I actually pay more for the standing charge than the gas itself.
Old_School_Brad
Major Contributor
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The calculations are correct. Based on my experience, expecting the dryer to last 10 years is overly optimistic...
Don't forget about the planned obsolescence of a new heat pump dryer. Good luck getting a control board 10 or 15 years from now. So now you have to get an entire new dryer instead of fixing it.
My old school top load washer and front load gas dryer are 30 years old. Why would I even contemplate thinking about getting something "modern" if I had to replace them?
My old school top load washer and front load gas dryer are 30 years old. Why would I even contemplate thinking about getting something "modern" if I had to replace them?
This is the farcical aspect of new, "environmentally friendly" products. They are often only environmentally friendly compared to building a new product, in the old way, from scratch, but If an older product works, then the excess energy made to produce it (often higher than it will consume in its lifetime) is already accounted for. Any costs in running it compared to a new product must outweigh the initial cost for a new product, add in the often shorter lifespan of the newer product and all is not what it seems.
If products were truly environmentally friendly, then they should come with a 25 year warranty and some, economically feasible, way of fixing the item should the company go bust. There should be legislation and infrastructure to back up the warranty, so that an item should be repaired by some entity.
Will 90% of the active speakers running today (or class D amps generally) be anything other than landfill in 15 to 20 years time?
It is all a bit robbing Peter to pay Paul. A game of musical chairs around a flimsy concept of 'environmentally friendly'.
Your previous post had 2 clickable links - I clicked the SINAD table. This shows no idle power consumption figures as far as I can see. It has only these column headings:
| THD+N (5W, 4 ohms) | SINAD (dB) (5W, 4 ohms) | Power (W) (1% THD+N, 4 ohms) | Price (USD) | Source |
The other link is to a thread generally discussing Class D "efficiency", started with an apparently ill-informed opinion. I've not found a table there, just contributions from members offering a few examples - mostly about non-Class D amps, illustrating that these amps are far less efficient. Have I missed a useful table? Thanks
Do Americans not put their washing on a outside line to dry? The weather and climate (the US is a large place) isn't always in your favour, but is it really something of a cultural/class taboo? I have heard as much, but don't know how true this is.
It was the table in the link posted by Matias.
This is a valid concern and add on top of this battery power. Headphones used to last until you sat on them. Now they last until the batteries fail.
Though I think 12 years is a bit pessimistic in regard to powered speakers. I've had plenty of subwoofers last well over 12 years. My expectations have outgrown them quicker than they have failed.
As for idle power, I'm more interested in other criteria for evaluating power consumption. Though it is still a useful number to have for these calculations. Standby consumption, that's a number I care about. My amps are in standby most of their existence.
When not in standby, the number I'm interested in is power consumption at my typical listening level. Some of this is accounted for by the base level (idle) draw of the amp and power supply. As volume increases, the efficiency of the amp becomes the primary factor in power consumption (I think). Many class-D amps have high enough idle draw that low-volume efficiency is merely ok. Their efficiency begins to pay off at higher volumes. This is noticeable on my hypex amps. They're not especially cool at low volume but you can raise the volume to ear-shattering levels without the heat getting out of control.
The EU will have such legislation in the not too distant future. The snag is that many new products are much harder to repair, and certainly audio products. On the other hand, many modern products are actually much better. Just try to remember old televisions with vacuum tubes, or old cars for that matter. We tend to have a far too rosy picture of the past (says me, the historian).
There is actually quite a bit of research on total lifetime environmental cost of various products, and the result is that, yes, throwing away some good stuff is wasteful, but also that the energy benefits of modern efficient equipment may override the benefits of keeping functional older gear within a remarkably short period of time. There is no universal right answer here. In our own case, we still have 26 year old quite good double glazing. Modern double glazing is better, but by how much to warrant throwing away the old glass? For now we are holding on to the existing glass.
And to return to the original question, my hunch would be that it is worthwhile with a class A amplifier, and if not financially, then at least environmentally. On the other hand, I doubt it is worthwhile to replace an AB amplifier, even though I would never buy one again.
Isn't the most energy used in the creation of new goods rather than their use though? There is probably some equation for time used vs energy consumed, including in creation of product.
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Mostly no, but it obviously depends on the product. It is likely true for a frugal DAC/preamp, but not for a power amplifier.
