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iD4 & iD14 MK II - Audient updated their Audio Interfaces

Matias

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Audient specifies the line out of the iD4 mk1 with SINAD 96 and the new iD4 mk2 104.
ASR measured 99 for the mk1, so the mk2 should be roughly 107 green area.
 

umbral

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Audient specifies the line out of the iD4 mk1 with SINAD 96 and the new iD4 mk2 104.
ASR measured 99 for the mk1, so the mk2 should be roughly 107 green area.

Thank you very much for the information. Where can we find this information ?
Can't find it here :
https://audient.com/products/audio-interfaces/id4/tech-specs/
https://audient.com/products/audio-interfaces/id14/tech-specs/

What about ADC SINAD, that is important in microphone recording ?!

On DAC / line outs the M2 vs old generation ID there was a 12 dB difference.
On ADC also 12dB vs M2 and vs M4 20 dB. (they used the higher quality line inputs from the back)
 

Matias

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@umbral it is in the first post of this thread, Line Out THD+N percentage, I just converted it to SINAD using this.
Yes, ADC is for recording mics or vinil etc.
 

umbral

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These figures suggest moving from about +/-8 V to +/-15 V supplies... pretty bold for bus-powered interfaces. Wouldn't be possible without Type C, I guess. Still makes me wonder what headphone out distortion performance would be like.

Any guesses as to converters? DAC wise I suspect either something ESS or a CS43198, the amount of DACs that are good for a real-life 125.5 dB(A) is somewhat limited.


Mic Preamplification is the same on all, they say.
from 3 October 2018

BUT...
They stated in the video, that on the older hardware they used as converters the following : (please correct me if wrong)

ID 22 = top of the range Burr Brown converters same as = ASP880
ID 14 = same Burr Brown converters as = ASP800 (not sure the same as the ones above)
ID 4 = AKM converters (sound different than Burr Brown)
ID 44 = AKM (highest spec from all converters above apparently he says ?)

So do i understand that now, ID4 MK II & ID14 MK II have the same converters since they have same specifications now ?

index.php
 

umbral

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@umbral it is in the first post of this thread, Line Out THD+N percentage, I just converted it to SINAD using this.
Yes, ADC is for recording mics or vinil etc.

Thank you very much for your knowledge on this. Very useful. DAC = -104.436974992 dB more exactly :)

Very interesting, use the subtitles for English

So you can't use two different headphones with different ohm right on the two headphone jacks (non independent) ? And if they have same ohm both will hear the same thing ? Will it have enough power to power both headphones ? Just need an adaptor for 1 of them correct to be able to plug it in ?

Also two or 3 reviews here ID4 : https://www.thomann.de/gb/audient_id4_mkii_reviews.htm??ar=510532&page=1&order=0&rating=0&reviewlang[]=all

They claim :

Negative points:
- You only have 1 mic input.
- At maximum boost for your headset you will hear some noise
- Mic gain is good, unfortunately you cannot turn it to the maximum without noise.
- No mic mute button
- No headset mute button

Perfectly silent, no background noise except with maximum gain.
The cable supplied is a usb-c to usb-c but it can be used with a usb-c to usb-a cable, preferably usb3.

And on ID14 MKII : https://www.thomann.de/ro/audient_id14_mkii_reviews.htm??ar=510533&page=1&order=0&rating=0&reviewlang[]=all

Only regret, the USB C connection seems fragile to me ... and the metal frame of the card that I received was poorly closed ... Well, it's the time of COVID and the factories doing what they can, we forgive, but we must be careful.

I have a little problem with the headphone levels though. It's not loud enough for me to drive an open back DT-990. It's loud, really loud, but I want to go way past that if I'm mixing so that I don't have trouble hearing anything that is soloed but the mix level is low.

the huge problem is with the id audient software program, the handling of the software needs a lot of improvements .

The headphone outputs are loud and therefore high-impedance KH can be fired without any problems. (this is positive and contradicts the above)

The input and output sockets are unfortunately a bit wobbly or unstable and I have the feeling that there could be problems at some point.
The biggest point of criticism (and also the reason for the return) is the driver! Under Windows 10, there are cracks every now and then and the interface sporadically does not wake up from sleep mode of the PC (but USB connection is available).
Unfortunately, these circumstances force me to look around for a different interface, although I would have liked to keep the Audient because of its nice look and also because of the two headphone and monitor outputs.

Biggest drawback: Since March 15th (after Windows update to version 10.0.18363 Build 18363) the interface is no longer recognized sporadically. I'm still looking for a solution here. Maybe something is known about this from Thomann, the manufacturer or another user.

---------------

Now since Motu M2 is available in 5-7 weeks, i want to ask if ID4 or ID14 is good or better than Motu M2 ?
What about the video ? Any preference in tone and volume of different frequencies ? The M2 has more bass and less highs, the audient more highs and less bass. Motu is dark/night, Audient is day/light.

The ID4 has 1 input and is almost twice as cheeper as ID14. Actually i think the ID14 is a little bit too expensive compared to their single ID4.

In this video:

After 13:23 when he comments on the preamp noise, he says there is none at max gain with SM7B. So then why are the comments that there is some noise on max gain from headphones ? They refer to max gain of microphone or headphones ? Can the headphones be independently turned louder ?
 
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umbral

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Is there a way to find or calculate ADC SINAD for ID4 / ID14 ?

I found this interesting about the old interface.
500 times in and out about converters, The Audient models lose all bass and gains crispy highs :

 
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Dreyfus

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Output Z still around 22-23 Ohms. Meh.
Otherwise, pretty decent for the price!
 

umbral

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Thank you for the comparisson.

Unfortunatelly the headphone is worse than MK1 with USB Type A

The official answer is :

Hello there,
Thank you for your message.

The higher headphone headroom is only available when the unit is connected to a USB-C port on the computer and not to a USB-A port. This is because the USB0C ports have extra pins which are required to enable this higher current delivery to the interface.

However please bear in mind that even when using a USB-A connection, you still have the same headphone output levels as the iD4 and iD14 MKI, which are more than enough to drive most headphones, but with the hugely upgraded DAC's feeding the headphone amplifier for more precise listening. Using USB-C just gives you an extra 6dB of headroom to minimise clipping when driving headphones that aren't very sensitive but again with most headphones on the market, this won't be an issue at all.

I hope this clears things up somewhat but of you have any further questions, please let me know.

All the best,


So a total huge disappointment in the headphones area, they should have taken current from a power brick not a USB, and just use USB to transfer data.

Way worse performance compared to even MK1.
 
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jangpol

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These figures suggest moving from about +/-8 V to +/-15 V supplies... pretty bold for bus-powered interfaces. Wouldn't be possible without Type C, I guess. Still makes me wonder what headphone out distortion performance would be like.
Any guesses as to converters? DAC wise I suspect either something ESS or a CS43198, the amount of DACs that are good for a real-life 125.5 dB(A) is somewhat limited.
See picture.
Overall, ID4 MKII is a fine little device. Rigid metal case. ADC section is very good, very low noise pre-amps. DAC section is also great. Channel balance perfect (volume knob is an encoder). I can hear relay switching when changing sample rate. HP amp (when connected to high power USB 3/C port, mine is connected via type C <-> type C cable) is capable of driving 150, 250 and 600 Ω headphones no problem.
 

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JohnYang1997

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See picture.
Overall, ID4 MKII is a fine little device. Rigid metal case. ADC section is very good, very low noise pre-amps. DAC section is also great. Channel balance perfect (volume knob is an encoder). I can hear relay switching when changing sample rate. HP amp (when connected to high power USB 3/C port, mine is connected via type C <-> type C cable) is capable of driving 150, 250 and 600 Ω headphones no problem.
One thing I do not understand is that how they are using the best converters but still measure so poorly(relatively). Other companies achieve the same performance with way cheaper converters. I am also not sure about the preamp. Is it really good in today's standard?
 

jangpol

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One thing I do not understand is that how they are using the best converters but still measure so poorly(relatively). Other companies achieve the same performance with way cheaper converters. I am also not sure about the preamp. Is it really good in today's standard?
Well, since I'm not a certified level 80 psychic audiophile who is capable of finding nuances between signal cables, I neither have any idea of what is your baseline standard for rating something "relatively poor", nor I have any idea what technical measurements of ID4/ID14 mk2 you're referring to for basing your evaluation of the device, nor I know anything about your experience with other interfaces, professional background and what companies and devices with "cheaper chips and same performance" you refer to.
As I've said, it's a good little device. Input stage is on par with big studio Audient consoles (or any other high grade hardware). Weighted input DR is about 112-114dB, preamp noise is less than -130. Output DR is around 125-126dB (A-weighted). No IMD hump. Interchannel around -114 -115 dB, no channel disbalance at all. HP amp is crystal clear at any volume and is more powerful (when connected to high power port) than on any other compact interface I used (including clarett, motu and antelope zen go), driving tough 600Ω is no problem. Low latency. The biggest downside is not having immediate input level monitoring like on motu m2/m4, power meter is very basic.
By my humble standards these modern entry-level devices like ID4/ID14 MKII and others have high grade specs being in budget friendly price range. 10-15 years ago you could find these kind of specs in high grade studio gear, nowadays you can have it at home.
 

JohnYang1997

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Well, since I'm not a certified level 80 psychic audiophile who is capable of finding nuances between signal cables, I neither have any idea of what is your baseline standard for rating something "relatively poor", nor I have any idea what technical measurements of ID4/ID14 mk2 you're referring to for basing your evaluation of the device, nor I know anything about your experience with other interfaces, professional background and what companies and devices with "cheaper chips and same performance" you refer to.
As I've said, it's a good little device. Input stage is on par with big studio Audient consoles (or any other high grade hardware). Weighted input DR is about 112-114dB, preamp noise is less than -130. Output DR is around 125-126dB (A-weighted). No IMD hump. Interchannel around -114 -115 dB, no channel disbalance at all. HP amp is crystal clear at any volume and is more powerful (when connected to high power port) than on any other compact interface I used (including clarett, motu and antelope zen go), driving tough 600Ω is no problem. Low latency. The biggest downside is not having immediate input level monitoring like on motu m2/m4, power meter is very basic.
By my humble standards these modern entry-level devices like ID4/ID14 MKII and others have high grade specs being in budget friendly price range. 10-15 years ago you could find these kind of specs in high grade studio gear, nowadays you can have it at home.
Idk, what about this?https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ated-their-audio-interfaces.19219/post-742585
Plus, I never said anything about price. But the final performance relative to the chips that they are using. RME uses the same AK5574 but with far superior performance in the AD section. And yeah after watching a video on YouTube, the DA section is quite good.

So the point is, no need to use the best converters if high performance is not what you are after. And for the price, the performance is solid, no question about that.
 

dfuller

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RME uses the same AK5574 but with far superior performance in the AD section
That's because on the ADI-2 Pro, it's fed from a dedicated line input. On these, it's fed through the padded down mic preamp. Audient's mic pre is not the cleanest ever (and it isn't supposed to be, fwiw, it's designed for a little bit of "sheen").
 

JohnYang1997

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That's because on the ADI-2 Pro, it's fed from a dedicated line input. On these, it's fed through the padded down mic preamp. Audient's mic pre is not the cleanest ever (and it isn't supposed to be, fwiw, it's designed for a little bit of "sheen").
That explains it. Thanks. I have an id14 mkii and an m audio air 192|4 coming. I also have a clarett 2pre(modded), adi2pro fs be r on hand. Maybe I'll test them someday.
 

JohnYang1997

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Just got my ID14 mkii. The DA section is pretty excellent. But when I measure the AD section.... Let's not talk about distortion being high at higher level. There is interchannel phase shift + polarity inversion between the two input channels. What the heck? Anyone interested in full measurements suite in a new thread?
The EIN of mic pre is -128.6dB which is excellent.
 
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notabenem

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I am interested in the measurements. Especially compared with the MOTU M4, which is hard to get these days.
 

jangpol

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Just got my ID14 mkii. The DA section is pretty excellent. But when I measure the AD section.... Let's not talk about distortion being high at higher level. There is interchannel phase shift + polarity inversion between the two input channels. What the heck? Anyone interested in full measurements suite in a new thread?
The EIN of mic pre is -128.6dB which is excellent.
That's strange. How exactly are you observing this, what is your chain and measurement means?
Nothing like this on my ID4MKII.
 
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