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I'd not ask this on any other forum....cables....

Frank Dernie

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Of course there is no directionality in AC signals. But we need labels for two signal terminals, Send & Return are common labels, so is Flow & Return. I like them better than Plus & Minus. I try to keep the word 'ground' out of most conversations, because it often causes confusion. The same labels should apply to both unbalanced and balanced circuits, do you have any label suggestions?

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How about High & Low?

Well I do much prefer + and - to flow and return or send and return myself fwiw. I know what you mean about ground, but most hifi is single ended so one side of the signal is normally "grounded". I have kit where there are switches to connect signal "ground" to chassis "ground" or to separate them. But I am old and used to the old terminology.
 

Speedskater

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Yes but 'ground' has so many meaning (and so many more incorrect meaning) it's had to tell just what a person is writing about.

Some frequent meanings:
a] Common reference point
b] Mother earth
c] Safety Ground/Protective Earth
d] Chassis
e] Shield
f] DC power supply common
g] Circuit common

While most of these have continuity from one to another, each has it's own function.
 

DonH56

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In the RF world there is the signal path and the return path. Lo be unto those that screw either of them up. Power uses line, neutral, and (safety) ground. Differential, sometimes called balanced, uses signal plus, signal minus, in-phase/out-of-phase, or whatever plus common-mode (which may or may not be ground potential) and shield (which usually is). Some may use hot and cold. Most use signal and ground. At least IME. In all cases it is critical to remember that current is a loop and signal and return/neutral/negative/ground are both important. Most of the time people know what "ground" is so that's what I tend to use.
 

DonH56

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Oh, agree completely. Don't depend upon audiophiles for technically accurate definitions... ;) Look at the whole "balanced" vs. "differential" debate. Could give them an IEEE Standard to review but...

Mother Earth = Gaia, yes? "Please Gaia, bless my interconnects, that they may provide sounds pleasing to me and to thee, yeah verily." :)
 

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Blumlein 88

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Oh, agree completely. Don't depend upon audiophiles for technically accurate definitions... ;) Look at the whole "balanced" vs. "differential" debate. Could give them an IEEE Standard to review but...

Mother Earth = Gaia, yes? "Please Gaia, bless my interconnects, that they may provide sounds pleasing to me and to thee, yeah verily." :)

Just go with balanced differential.

There is the controversy with Gaia or Gaea however. Most recently it is the former rather than the latter. I blame that British climate scientist that told NASA when he worked for them they had no need to go to Mars looking for life. He could tell from here there was none. So far there actually is no solid evidence he was wrong. He popularized the Gaia spelling.
 

DonH56

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DonH56

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Balanced is just a carefully designed sub-set of differential.

Alas, no, and that is part of the problem. Some equipment manufacturers use the term balanced to describe a quasi-differential (if that) implementation that is single-ended but with an additional resistor (usually) from ground to signal return/minus/negative/whatever so looking into the driver the impedances are roughly the same ("balanced") but the circuit is not actually differential. This can be of some benefit but generally does not have the CMRR of a true differential design, nor even of a wellp-matched quasi-differential design (which often takes a single-ended driver and adds an active inverter stage to create the (-) output).

Actually, I realized that your interpretation is OK, if emphasis is placed upon "carefully designed"...
 
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I like cables because they are pretty.
To that end I chose cables where the manufacturer admitted they bought bulk cable and dressed it up. They actually publishe LCR. My emphasis was also on RFI rejection. I hear differences in cables
Rarely is the difference worth the money. The cables I wanted cost more than the money I spent on the cimponents I would connect them to.
Disclaimer: I am an avid audiophile.
Note: Random outcone means each outcome has the same probability. If there are 10 possible outcomes the chance of ŕandomly picking any number is the same.
 
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Sal1950

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I hear differences in cables
Rarely is the difference worth the money. The cables I wanted cost more than the money I spent on the cimponets I would connect them to.
Disclaimer: I am an avid audiophile.
On this I will give you temporary amnesty till you either change your affiliation or submit you for execution.
Cheers
 

Sal1950

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Sal1950

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Sal doesn't know you are an attorney. I suggest suing him for not eating anything but American food! :D
You would need to provide supportable evidence to that fact, a position you would find impossible to introduce. ;)
 

RayDunzl

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There are examples where differences in cables were found

Well, there are price differences...

And differences in LCR (which is not necessarily expensive to produce)...

What else?
 

Sal1950

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There are examples where differences in cables were found.
Well there are also things like the Audioquest HDMI cable hoax. A video that showed supportable evidence that their expensive cables
were worth the scaled high prices with improved performance as you climbed the pricing ladder,
Of course it was proven to be a hoax and immediately taken down and responsibility denied by the bosses.
http://www.audioholics.com/editorials/mark-waldrep-audioquest-open-letter-editorial
http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5540
Amir also measured and caught the con, I just can't find the link right now.
 
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