Iconoclast (Galen Garies) comments on the sound of cables in PS Audio Copper e-zine

[davides]

I'm surprised no one here has yet to comment on Galen's statement that cables can and do sound different. I trust his expertise in the matter of cable design and I think we all have a fondness or at least an appreciation for Belden cables. While I'm an objectivist, I do believe in blind A-B tests and at some point, a poorly designed cable will both show (as Amir has kindly pointed out in many of his review videos) and might also sound different than a properly designed cable, saying nothing of materials choices. I can appreciate the reality that noise, interference or any other deleterious effects may not be in the audible range but surely there must be audible differences in cables no differently than in components? Here's a quote from the article, linked below.

"That cables sound different isn’t a mystery to me. If the variables that relate to time-based effects are improved, the sound of the cable can be improved. As we like to say, sound designs create sound performances."

https://www.psaudio.com/article/cable-design-and-the-speed-of-sound-part-three/

 

[devopsprodude]

Yeah, very disappointing that bluejeanscable.com is involved in this as it runs completely counter to their core business.

 

[devopsprodude]

I'm surprised no one here has yet to comment on Galen's statement that cables can and do sound different. I trust his expertise in the matter of cable design and I think we all have a fondness or at least an appreciation for Belden cables. While I'm an objectivist, I do believe in blind A-B tests and at some point, a poorly designed cable will both show (as Amir has kindly pointed out in many of his review videos) and might also sound different than a properly designed cable, saying nothing of materials choices. I can appreciate the reality that noise, interference or any other deleterious effects may not be in the audible range but surely there must be audible differences in cables no differently than in components? Here's a quote from the article, linked below.

"That cables sound different isn’t a mystery to me. If the variables that relate to time-based effects are improved, the sound of the cable can be improved. As we like to say, sound designs create sound performances."

https://www.psaudio.com/article/cable-design-and-the-speed-of-sound-part-three/

This is exactly the sort of crap Monster Cables and others have used to justify their high prices. I don't think you can ever make it worth it to spend $100+ per foot on cables.

 

[mansr]

 

[RayDunzl]

Who?

 

[Katji]

Why am I not surprised to see psaudio in the URL. :-s
Is the former Belden cable designer/whatever associated with psaudio or is it just that psaudio is continually pumping out pseudo-science stuff.

"That cables sound different isn’t a mystery to me. If the variables that relate to time-based effects are improved, the sound of the cable can be improved. As we like to say, sound designs create sound performances."

That needs to be broken down, "unpacked." Starting with the statement that "cables sound different." And then going on to the "mystery."

 

[jtwrace]

 

[devopsprodude]

Why am I not surprised to see psaudio in the URL. :-s
Is the former Belden cable designer/whatever associated with psaudio or is it just that psaudio is continually pumpng out pseudo-science stuff.


That needs to be broken down, "unpacked." Starting with the statement that "cables sound different." And then going on to the "mystery."

Yeah, in my experience, bad analog cables mostly just limit amount of signal because of increased resistance. I haven't seen any credible evidence to support notions of time delay enough for human ears to hear it.

 

[amirm]

I watched a nearly 3 hour video of his last night at the San Francisco Audiophile Society. Summarizing, he assumes equal inductance and capacitance is a good thing as is have close velocity in the cable. He readily says he is not sure if these things are audible but that he is sure cables sound different.

Looks like Bluejeans is only manufacturing the cables for them. I couldn't find them selling it. Sales is through dealer channel and their own site. A 6 foot pair of speaker cables in lowest grade is $1,200.

 

[devopsprodude]

I watched a nearly 3 hour video of his last night at the San Francisco Audiophile Society. Summarizing, he assumes equal inductance and capacitance is a good thing as is have close velocity in the cable. He readily says he is not sure if these things are audible but that he is sure cables sound different.

Looks like Bluejeans is only manufacturing the cables for them. I couldn't find them selling it. Sales is through dealer channel and their own site. A 6 foot pair of speaker cables in lowest grade is $1,200.

Yeah, you can't get them from the BJC site, but they do have a full page in the site about it and link to the brand's site. Also, whoever designed BJC's site at least partly designed the new brand's site, because the calculators look almost identical.

 

[jtwrace]

Yeah, you can't get them from the BJC site, but they do have a full page in the site about it and link to the brand's site. Also, whoever designed BJC's site at least partly designed the new brand's site, because the calculators look almost identical.

Blue Jeans runs the ICONOCLAST line. It's owned by the same person.

Watch my podcast

 

[devopsprodude]

Looks like Bluejeans is only manufacturing the cables for them. I couldn't find them selling it. Sales is through dealer channel and their own site. A 6 foot pair of speaker cables in lowest grade is $1,200.

I just don't know how anyone can justify spending that much on speaker cables. Let's say they are theoretically better than BJC's 10 white. Are they going to be 100 times better to justify the cost? Heck no. Are they going to be twice as good? Highly doubt it. BJC 10 white is at the point where at pretty much any length up to 50 feet it will be transparent to the listener, and any problems with audio are elsewhere in the system. I highly doubt that anyone could tell the difference between these expensive cables and BJC 10 white (heck, even BJC 12) in a double blind test.

 

[mansr]

equal inductance and capacitance

What does that mean? Those quantities have different units.

 

[Katji]

Well, when you're down the rabbit hole, it doesn't matter.

 

[boselover61]

Ps audio = pseudo science audio

 

[kristiansen]

I respect when a technician admits to having experienced sound differences that cannot be measured or explained, i am one of them.

This is how all real science starts, which is not just "science" which confirms known science or prejudice.
But I do not respect that he is trying to make it edible/accepted by claiming that it is due to time delay between high and low frequencies it is BS In my opinion.
His solution is i.a. Litze wire, quite ok, induction is lowered, and prevent skin effect, something I do myself, but I still do not know why cables sound different because it is actually electrical like Ethan Winer shows here

I have no electrical explanation for perceived sound differences, but I know, they are there.

But I have observed a common denominator. Cables made of the same materials sound the same although RLC varies, cables where the materials are different for conductor and dialetric sound different even though RLC is the same, I call that material sound and It applies to all components not just cables both in the analog and digital domains.

I have no explanation, it is an experience, a claim which, however, applies to everything that man constructs, the materials that form a construction always mean something on some level. Especially if our senses are to judge the result.

 

[BDWoody]

I have no explanation, it is an experience, a claim

Exactly...a claim.

What is needed is actual evidence.

 

[chris719]

What does that mean? Those quantities have different units.

Probably the reactance in ohms. Still sounds like BS.

 

[mansr]

Probably the reactance in ohms. Still sounds like BS.

Still can't be equal. One is positive imaginary, the other negative.

 

[chris719]

Still can't be equal. One is positive imaginary, the other negative.

Yes, we know this. I suppose it’s a mistake to try to read into what a cable monger is saying anyway.