I think I figured out what the ‘DAC signature sound’ every YouTuber is talking about.

[abdo123]

Well since the majority of the DACs that are being pushed to the public at the consumer level absolutely suck. And they often do not have the necessary Dynamic range to produce the full dynamic range provided by the CD quality format (106 db i think?)

it’s very much possible that this ‘signature sound’ thingy they keep mentioning is just the imperfections in these DACs disguised (intentionally?) as ‘Character’ or ‘Color’

I mean they cannot all collectively lie to each other unless they realize these lies are actually true lol.

 

[Berwhale]

uhuh?

 

[NTomokawa]

Psychoacoustics aside, youtubers very often have certain agendas (profit) to push.

 

[PierreV]

And they often do not have the necessary Dynamic range to produce the full dynamic range provided by the CD quality format (106 db i think?)

96.33 dB for 16 bits. This is reached easily by the vast majority of DACs on the market.

 

[abdo123]

96.33 dB for 16 bits. This is reached easily by the vast majority of DACs on the market.

If you exclude Topping, the majority of the popular brands bellow 500$ cannot reach that score.

 

[fieldcar]

Psychoacoustics aside, youtubers very often have certain agendas (profit) to push.

Hey Man, I've got 5 kids to feed.

 

[andreasmaaan]

If you exclude Topping, the majority of the popular brands bellow 500$ cannot reach that score.

Are you saying that most DACs have <96dB of dynamic range? Or what exactly?

 

[abdo123]

Are you saying that most DACs have <96dB of dynamic range? Or what exactly?

Brands that are viciously pushed as budget solutions for consumers by YouTubers, Like audioquest. Almost never reach that score.

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

If you exclude Topping, the majority of the popular brands bellow 500$ cannot reach that score.

Name some brands /models that are being pushed this way without 96dB range please.

Or that are being pushed as you say but you don't know how it measures. Genuine question by the way

 

[mhardy6647]

If you exclude Topping, the majority of the popular brands bellow 500$ cannot reach that score.

You can run the numbers yourself, if you wish, of things that have been tested here.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/

I did ADCs and DACs (all of the relevant boxes I noticed) less than ca. $700 (that was the easiest point that I could drag to near 500 smackers).

 

[andreasmaaan]

Brands that are viciously pushed as budget solutions for consumers by YouTubers, Like audioquest. Almost never reach that score.

By "score" you mean dynamic range. Did I understand correctly?

And if so, what do you believe to be the minimum dynamic range necessary for a DAC to not have "character" or "colour"?

 

[abdo123]

Name some brands /models that are being pushed this way without 96dB range please.

Or that are being pushed as you say but you don't know how it measures. Genuine question by the way

Basically all of Schiit’s line up except the modi3 and all of Audioquest ‘s line up.

The bluesound node 2i

Very very pushed products that have terrible performance.

 

[majingotan]

BTW, your tranducers perform way worse in THD+N compared to solid state electronics like DACs and amps. The distortion figures in DACs are just being masked by the distortions induced with transducers. Hence there are test here such as https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...test-distort-audibility-of-distortions.10163/ that adds distortion to sound output, but even a -60 dBFS level of distortion is inaudible when music is playing at normal volumes due to masking effect.

 

[abdo123]

By "score" you mean dynamic range. Did I understand correctly?

And if so, what do you believe to be the minimum dynamic range necessary for a DAC to not have "character" or "colour"?

i mean if you’re playing a CD track on a DAC that cannot achieve CD dynamic range some of the sound will be covered by noise.

this phenomenon will change from DAC to DAC. Thus the ‘sound color’.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Basically all of Schiit’s line up except the modi3 and all of Audioquest ‘s line up.

The bluesound node 2i

Very very pushed products that have terrible performance.

I'm sure some of these products are terrible enough to have a slight, subtle audible effect on SQ.

But I expect psychological/social factors are overwhelmingly the primary cause of beliefs about DAC "sound signatures" etc.

 

[andreasmaaan]

i mean if you’re playing a CD track on a DAC that cannot achieve CD dynamic range some of the sound will be covered by noise.

this phenomenon will change from DAC to DAC. Thus the ‘sound color’.

Not necessarily. Have you tried listening to audio with only e.g. 8, 12 or 14 bits of dynamic range? It's very hard to hear the differences between 12, 14 and 16 bits using the kind of gear most people own in the kinds of environments most people listen in at home.

 

[NTomokawa]

this phenomenon will change from DAC to DAC. Thus the ‘sound color’.

The audibility of this is questionable.

 

[abdo123]

BTW, your tranducers perform way worse in THD+N compared to solid state electronics like DACs and amps. The distortion figures in DACs are just being masked by the distortions induced with transducers. Hence there are test here such as https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...test-distort-audibility-of-distortions.10163/ that adds distortion to sound output, but even a -60 dBFS level of distortion is inaudible when music is playing at normal volumes due to masking effect.

The noise off your DAC will be amplified meaning any errors in this process are definitely audible. If not as audible. Everything in your chain should have adequate performance.

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

I think it's more likely that they feel the need to attribute some unique characteristics to each product regardless of whether they believe they actually have one or not.

It is, after all, pretty much just a type of marketing after all. Each product needs a story.

 

[abdo123]

I'm sure some of these products are terrible enough to have a slight, subtle audible effect on SQ.

But I expect psychological/social factors are overwhelmingly the primary cause of beliefs about DAC "sound signatures" etc.

it’s hard for me to believe that this whole disillusionment is not backed up by measurements some how and it’s mostly psychological. But indeed it could be a significant part of it.