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I tend to prefer slow roll offs and even the NOS mode - what does this say about my setup and preference?

anphex

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#1
With every DAC I had ... well, it was only really Topping and Gustard DACs that ever gave me the option to select roll off filters, I came to the same result. I tried about all filter modes, some with lesser and some with greater difference. But with passing time I found myself preferring the slow roll offs . Then for trying sake I enabled the NOS mode - and I loved it. Same when I switched to Gustard X16 because I was still in the trying out period. Started with the L-Fast, then I was more comfortable with the M-Slow and now for two days I am using NOS mode and it just feels right. As if the sound is more pure and there are no artifacts. But from what I've read there SHOULD be more ultra sonic artifacts. I can't hear those so far though (my speakers go to 24khz @ -3db spec).

So what is this? Am I going full placebo? Is my setup broken? Or may it very well may be that NOS can be a suitable mode even for normal 44,1/16 music and general media?

Still, I am not really sure about staying on NOS mode but even then it would definetly be slow mode. Seems like fast filters aren't my thing.
 
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anphex

anphex

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Thread Starter #5
Find a way to answer this first, only when the effect is real is it worth investigating.
What do you suggest? ABXing? Not sure how to do that comfortably right now. The display of the Gustard is tiny and the remote somehow jumps through the menu and skips a few options. So I may be just adjusting the display brightness instead of the filters :D. But now that I think of it, if I manage to really just change the NOS mode setting on and off I might be getting a very easy ABX check. Okay, will report back.

My guess would be your speakers are tilted upwards in the treble.
You mean by design or by the slower filters? The frequency response looks like this but I don't know whether it's spec or a measurement of the magazine I cut grabbed it from:
1627406678971.png

Dunno why the image is so huge, but my setting is the red and the purple line - slightly reduced mids and neutral highs.
 
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anphex

anphex

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Thread Starter #6
solder dude it would help to explain for him the NOS filters will roll off treble...

slower filters are less sharp and can roll off in audible range, NOS is more extreme.

Hear are graph for NOS filter response in one dac:https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ete-r2r-dac.10161/#lg=attachment40856&slide=0

A few decibels lost at 20k, and still with slight loss all the way to 10k
What we see there, are those the mirror frequency artifacts or is it just a wide band noise test signal?
 

Soniclife

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#8
The display of the Gustard is tiny and the remote somehow jumps through the menu and skips a few options. So I may be just adjusting the display brightness instead of the filters :D. But now that I think of it, if I manage to really just change the NOS mode setting on and off I might be getting a very easy ABX check. Okay, will report back.
That's the sort of thing I'd start with. Can you get lost in the menus and then reliably choose the filter you prefer. If you can then you can try and get someone else to select a filter and see if you know what it is etc.
 
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anphex

anphex

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Thread Starter #9

voodooless

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#12
Lol. Interesting for sure.

...Was he banned? I can't tag him and there is no profile to click on in your @ mention. I didn't see anything that was too nuts from my POV.
No Idea.. indeed profile seems unavailable..
 
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#13
But then shouldn't it sound sharper instead of softer? Sure the tweeter adds also some kind of analog roll off but I am sitting exactly in the triangle sweet spot like you'd do with tilted studio monitors.
it is ultrasonic, how will you hear it?
 

fieldcar

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#14
it is ultrasonic, how will you hear it?
Sometimes ultrasonic noise can create distortion in the audible domain. Whether this is interpreted as a positive or negative is up to that listener's subjective opinion. I'm a firm believer in "proper" bandlimiting filters as Amir puts it.
 

voodooless

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#15
Indeed, IMD is also increased:



Would like to see a 32 tone multi tone in NOS mode. I’m pretty sure it will not be very nice.
 
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anphex

anphex

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Thread Starter #16
Sometimes ultrasonic noise can create distortion in the audible domain. Whether this is interpreted as a positive or negative is up to that listener's subjective opinion. I'm a firm believer in "proper" bandlimiting filters as Amir puts it.
Again, might be placebo, but now listening attentivly I think there is some hiss in the upper highs. Could be just be normal highs "enhanced" by my focussing. But nevertheless, it's not uncomfortable. Sounds kind of like even harmonics. Damn, I feel so weird for writing such unscientific stuff right now.
I also wanted to follow Amirs suggestion regarding roll offs, that why I ran the Gustard on the Fast filters for a while but there was a very small "hiss" in the audio band that is pretty much gone with slow filtering or NOS.
 
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anphex

anphex

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Thread Starter #17
Indeed, IMD is also increased:



Would like to see a 32 tone multi tone in NOS mode. I’m pretty sure it will not be very nice.
But doesn't that transient look much nicer on the NOS? I think the added IMD might be also already inside non audible band.
 

voodooless

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#18
But doesn't that transient look much nicer on the NOS? I think the added IMD might be also already inside non audible band.
If you think more square.. yes, but that does not mean it’s more “correct”. Remember that ideally it should be a single pulse. This does not get you a pulse, but rather a square wave.
 
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anphex

anphex

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Thread Starter #19
If you think more square.. yes, but that does not mean it’s more “correct”. Remember that ideally it should be a single pulse. This does not get you a pulse, but rather a square wave.
Is there a description of the pulse provided? Depending on this you could interpret either as good or bad. And even then it's probably very up for debate on which one is "better". Interesting topic though. Amir already knows how infatuated I am with impulse response - I think he even added impulse response in his speaker reviews because of me lol.

Edit: Not sure if the image is on a fixed scale but note how the bottom transient begins later than the upper one,
 

voodooless

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#20
Is there a description of the pulse provided? Depending on this you could interpret either as good or bad. And even then it's probably very up for debate on which one is "better". Interesting topic though.
Well since the impulse response represents the system, we can easily asses which one is objectively better: the one that brings us closed to the input, and in this case that is the lower one. input is band limited signal, so the output should be as well.

Edit: Not sure if the image is on a fixed scale but note how the bottom transient begins later than the upper one,
The absolute timing is irrelevant.
 

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