I need some advice, JBL DD66000，Beolab 50 or KEF Blade One Meta?

[dickman]

Hello everyone, I am from China; please accept my sincere greetings.
I am considering acquiring a pair of HIFI speakers as the left and right main speakers for my home theatre and need an excellent off-axis response to ensure sound articulation from the front.
The JBL 66000, KEF blade one meta, and beolab 50 are similar in price in China, and all three seem to offer good off-axis response with their waveguide design.
I checked some relevant reviews on the internet, and only the dd66000 has credible, appropriate measurements; the other two I have auditioned, but given the different acoustic environment of the room, I don't trust my ears.
JBL seems to have the best speaker units and cabinet design, but the model is perhaps too old. The Blade has the latest UniQ technology and appears to be a good choice. beolab50 has plenty of power at 2100w and comes with its DSP technology

My English is not very good, and I hope you don't mind that some of the technical words may be poorly expressed.

 

[alex-z]

The JBL 66000 and Beolab 50 will have some off-axis irregularities due to their multiple driver configurations, but are certainly capable of playing louder. What SPL level are you planning, and at what distance?

Also, have you considered in-wall speakers? The KEF Ci5160REF-THX offer 2dB higher efficiency than the Blade One Meta due to the lack of baffle step loss. The Blade One Meta will have more output below 60Hz, but that is irrelevant in a home theatre because of the subwoofer integration.

 

[dickman]

The JBL 66000 and Beolab 50 will have some off-axis irregularities due to their multiple driver configurations, but are certainly capable of playing louder. What SPL level are you planning, and at what distance?

Also, have you considered in-wall speakers? The KEF Ci5160REF-THX offer 2dB higher efficiency than the Blade One Meta due to the lack of baffle step loss. The Blade One Meta will have more output below 60Hz, but that is irrelevant in a home theatre because of the subwoofer integration.

Thank you for your reply
My listening room is around 35 square metres and the speakers are about 4 metres from where I am sitting. I've heard that a good listening position should have an SPL greater than 120db, I don't know precisely how to go about calculating this, but I think all three could probably easily achieve this value.
Apart from watching movies, I also enjoy music, so I still want a HIFI speaker with a great low frequency. I haven't considered built-in speakers at the moment because, apart from listening to them, I expect them to look like works of art in my home environment.

 

[alex-z]

Peak SPL Calculator

The KEF Blade One Meta is 88dB at 1 metre with 2.83V. The nominal impedance is 4 Ohms, so 2.83V means 2 watts.

At a distance of 13.12ft aka 4 metres, that means each speaker produces 79dB. 50 watts would equal 92.9dB, and the maximum 400 watts recommended by KEF is 102dB. 400 watts is almost certainly a peak power figure, not sustained, so don't exceed that number for any reason.

That is without adding any room reflections, you can expect 3-6dB more output depending on speaker placement. So the KEF Blade One Meta could manage reference levels at your listening distance, but just barely, and with a lot of amplifier power.


THX reference level is 105dB at the listening position for the main channels, and 115dB for the LFE channel. This is extremely loud, even most home theatre enthusiasts listen 10-15dB below reference. No sense in giving yourself hearing damage.

If you want the best audio quality, you should be using external subwoofers for both music and movies. Modern day acoustic research tells us that achieving a smooth in-room bass response requires multiple subwoofers, otherwise room modes will cause anomalies. If you use digital signal processing to correct room modes with a single subwoofer, it causes a worse response in other seats. The multi-sub approach reduces seat to seat variation and gives additional output headroom suitable for applying the signal processing.

https://www.harman.com/documents/multsubs_0.pdf

Even if your speakers could play flat to 20Hz (which virtually none can), you would still want subwoofers. The optimal speaker placement for stereo imaging is likely to conflict with the ideal placement for managing room modes.

The only way to manage room modes without DSP or multiple subs is acoustic treatment. But absorbing frequencies such as 30-80Hz (common range for room modes) requires absorption that is 50-100cm deep, taking up a good portion of the room. Most setups have panels which are 10-20cm deep in order to remain aesthetically pleasing.

 

[voodooless]

These are very different speakers, visually as well as conceptually. The JBL play the loudest for sure with its dual 15” woofers and compression drivers. It’s also a massive box. The Blade and Beolab are sleek and modern. The Beolab also contains all the amps and DSP, so you don’t need to spend any money on that (although if you’re able to spend that much on a pair that probably doesn’t matter that much). The blades will probably have the most accurate sound. The Beolab is also very flexible with it’s directivity modes. If you have a use for that it can be a huge plus. I’m guessing the Blade will go a bit louder than the Beolab due to BR vs closed box, but I doubt the difference will be large.

 

[dickman]

Peak SPL Calculator

The KEF Blade One Meta is 88dB at 1 metre with 2.83V. The nominal impedance is 4 Ohms, so 2.83V means 2 watts.

At a distance of 13.12ft aka 4 metres, that means each speaker produces 79dB. 50 watts would equal 92.9dB, and the maximum 400 watts recommended by KEF is 102dB. 400 watts is almost certainly a peak power figure, not sustained, so don't exceed that number for any reason.

That is without adding any room reflections, you can expect 3-6dB more output depending on speaker placement. So the KEF Blade One Meta could manage reference levels at your listening distance, but just barely, and with a lot of amplifier power.


THX reference level is 105dB at the listening position for the main channels, and 115dB for the LFE channel. This is extremely loud, even most home theatre enthusiasts listen 10-15dB below reference. No sense in giving yourself hearing damage.

If you want the best audio quality, you should be using external subwoofers for both music and movies. Modern day acoustic research tells us that achieving a smooth in-room bass response requires multiple subwoofers, otherwise room modes will cause anomalies. If you use digital signal processing to correct room modes with a single subwoofer, it causes a worse response in other seats. The multi-sub approach reduces seat to seat variation and gives additional output headroom suitable for applying the signal processing.

https://www.harman.com/documents/multsubs_0.pdf

Even if your speakers could play flat to 20Hz (which virtually none can), you would still want subwoofers. The optimal speaker placement for stereo imaging is likely to conflict with the ideal placement for managing room modes.

The only way to manage room modes without DSP or multiple subs is acoustic treatment. But absorbing frequencies such as 30-80Hz (common range for room modes) requires absorption that is 50-100cm deep, taking up a good portion of the room. Most setups have panels which are 10-20cm deep in order to remain aesthetically pleasing.

Thank you so very, very much for the website and such a detailed response
I do plan to buy a lyngdorf MP60 preamp as a DSP tool and will also put four subwoofers in the four corners of the room
I've always wondered why audiophiles don't try to add subwoofers to their stereo systems to get better bass (at least in China), some people tell me that most music signals are in stereo, so adding subwoofers is useless and can be counterproductive if the crossover points between the main speakers and subwoofers are not adjusted properly

 

[dickman]

These are very different speakers, visually as well as conceptually. The JBL play the loudest for sure with its dual 15” woofers and compression drivers. It’s also a massive box. The Blade and Beolab are sleek and modern. The Beolab also contains all the amps and DSP, so you don’t need to spend any money on that (although if you’re able to spend that much on a pair that probably doesn’t matter that much). The blades will probably have the most accurate sound. The Beolab is also very flexible with it’s directivity modes. If you have a use for that it can be a huge plus. I’m guessing the Blade will go a bit louder than the Beolab due to BR vs closed box, but I doubt the difference will be large.

As I wanted to watch the film in a brighter environment, I chose the TV as my video source rather than projection so that I couldn't place the centre speaker, so I wanted to remove the centre speaker section in favour of a pair of HIFI speakers that provided a very 'wide' soundstage as a front channel.
The 66000, blade and lab50 all have corresponding waveguide designs, so I'll use all three as a comparison.

 

[alex-z]

I've always wondered why audiophiles don't try to add subwoofers to their stereo systems to get better bass (at least in China), some people tell me that most music signals are in stereo, so adding subwoofers is useless and can be counterproductive if the crossover points between the main speakers and subwoofers are not adjusted properly

The original signal might be in stereo, but there is no reason why you cannot split the signal so that subwoofers manage bass and speakers manage everything else. Don't drive a screw with a hammer would be a saying that represents that. Getting the crossover right is important, but isn't difficult. Many people do 4 subwoofer integration with cheap hardware like a miniDSP 2x4HD, because most AV receivers and stereo amps lack that ability. Not sure if the Lyngdorf can do independent sub control, but I assume it does at that price.

I couldn't place the centre speaker, so I wanted to remove the centre speaker section in favour of a pair of HIFI speakers that provided a very 'wide' soundstage as a front channel.
The 66000, blade and lab50 all have corresponding waveguide designs, so I'll use all three as a comparison.

Even with extremely good speakers, you may still want a centre channel. It helps keep the dialogue anchored in the middle, important unless you watch movies alone. With a large TV, voices might sound like they come from slightly below the TV, but this is usually not noticeable.

 

[sprellemannen]

Below are my subjective experiences:
1) JBL DD66000.
I see no reason to worry about them being released several years ago. I have listened to them for many hours. The first time I listened to them was for two hours or so in 2008 in a shop's room which was approximately 24 square meters (258 square feet). The attached photos are from that visit.
The sound was great, even though the room was only so-so.

Some years later I visited a person who had two pairs of DD66000, one for sale and one for his own. The pair for sale was placed inside a huge barn. Since I was considering buying them, I brought my amplifier at the time which was a 100 watts T+A amplifier which measured well. The source was a cheap CD-player. The JBL's played loud and the sound was amazing. After that listen, I was listening to his pair which was not for sale and was in the attic of the house. The electronics he used there was very expensive stuff. The sound there was very disappointing (the room's size was too small, the ceiling height was low). (I once also listened to the very expensive Avantgarde Acoustic Trio with basshorns in an attic, it was awful).

2) Beolab 50.
I have listened to these twice in B&O shops. Both times the sound was disappointing.

3) Kef Blade (not Meta).
I have only had a short listening on them. The impression was good.

If possible, comparing them in the same room would have been an advantage. If you have that possibility, that is preferrable. If I was to take the decision among these speakers, I would have bought second hand and chosen between JBL DD66000 or Kef Blade (not META) (since their full price is high). If your room is big (or at least medium sized), I would have chosen the JBL's although I guess the Kef's are also very good. If the room is quite small, I would have chose the KEF's. After having bought a pair of speakers in this class, you can feel done regarding speakers.

 

[test1223]

With a listening distance of 4m I would choose the JBL Everest 66000. You get less reflections and more max spl at the listening position and with the other speakers you will most likely hear your room in the recordings and not as much details due to a higher amount of reflections.

4 meter is a large listening distance and the blade is great but will only work with a very highly treated room and very free standing at 4 meter listening distance and the max spl will be even lower since a lot of the reflections have to be absorbed.

The beolap is somewhere between the Everest and the blade.

 

[dickman]

Below are my subjective experiences:
1) JBL DD66000.
I see no reason to worry about them being released several years ago. I have listened to them for many hours. The first time I listened to them was for two hours or so in 2008 in a shop's room which was approximately 20 square meters (sitting very close to them). The attached photos are from that visit.
The sound was great, even though the room was only so-so.

Some years later I visited a person who had two pairs of DD66000, one for sale and one for his own. The pair for sale was placed inside a huge barn. Since I was considering buying them, I brought my amplifier at the time which was a 100 watts T+A amplifier which measured well. The source was a cheap CD-player. The JBL's played loud and the sound was amazing. After that listen, I was listening to his pair which was not for sale and was in the attic of the house. The electronics he used there was very expensive stuff. The sound there was very disappointing (the room's size was too small, the ceiling height was low). (I once also listened to the very expensive Avantgarde Acoustic Trio with basshorns in an attic, it was awful).

2) Beolab 50.
I have listened to these twice in B&O shops. Both times the sound was disappointing.

3) Kef Blade (not Meta).
I have only had a short listening on them. The impression was good.

If possible, comparing them in the same room would have been an advantage. If you have that possibility, that is preferrable. If I was to take the decision among these speakers, I would have bought second hand and chosen between JBL DD66000 or Kef Blade (not META) (since their full price is high). If your room is big (or at least medium sized), I would have chosen the JBL's although I guess the Kef's are also very good. If the room is quite small, I would have chose the KEF's. After having bought a pair of speakers in this class, you can feel done regarding speakers.

View attachment 218719

View attachment 218721

Subjective feelings are still important; I wonder how large a room that pair of awful-sounding DD66000s are located within? That might serve as a reference for me.
Everest, I am also considering a second-hand deal; both blade and lab50 can be bought brand new for roughly the same price; I don't know if the actual price in other countries is the same as in China, where the actual transaction price is much lower than the merchant's pricing, used Everest, brand new blade and lab50 can both be purchased for around $25,000.

 

[sprellemannen]

Subjective feelings are still important; I wonder how large a room that pair of awful-sounding DD66000s are located within? That might serve as a reference for me.
Everest, I am also considering a second-hand deal; both blade and lab50 can be bought brand new for roughly the same price; I don't know if the actual price in other countries is the same as in China, where the actual transaction price is much lower than the merchant's pricing, used Everest, brand new blade and lab50 can both be purchased for around $25,000.

My guess is that the room was 20 square meters, but since the roof was Ʌ-shaped, we were sitting were close. Since it was in an attic, the ceiling height was quite much lower than in a normal room.

I now read one of your posts more carefully and reads that your room is 35 square meters, which is quite good. As of today, the JBL's are without a doubt among the best speakers I have ever heard. In my opinion they are beautiful as well. Remember that they are wide, though (nearly 96.5 cm). But they are not deep (46.9 cm, which is 11.5 cm shallower than my Salon2's). Good luck, and tell us about your purchase when it is done.

 

[sprellemannen]

Since the JBL's sound was excellent in the approximately 24 square meter sized room shown in the photos, I guess they will play excellently in your room as well (unless there are some other unfortunate things with your room). The bass was stunning. The meters on the Mcintosh amplifiers reached a maximum of approximately 50 watts (on a song by Peter Gabriel). so you do not need a powerful amplifier (I can recommend a Benchmark AHB2, but you may well have a good amplifier already). I still remember well my listening to them in that room, since the sound was very good.

 

[Martin]

If you were asking about a stereo setup I would probably recommend the KEF Blade One Meta. But since you are asking about speakers for a home theater setup I would highly recommend the JBL DD66000. They will give you the volume and impact you need in your large room.

Martin

 

[sprellemannen]

Some photos:

The person standing in the photo with 3 persons is Greg Timbers.

 

[voodooless]

Some photos:

View attachment 218824
View attachment 218825

Pff, you failed to hang four of them from the ceiling as Atmos heights. What kind of a half assed system is this

 

[dickman]

Even with extremely good speakers, you may still want a centre channel. It helps keep the dialogue anchored in the middle, important unless you watch movies alone. With a large TV, voices might sound like they come from slightly below the TV, but this is usually not noticeable.

Indeed, the centre speaker ensures that the character dialogue is excellent. But when viewing a film, the sound from the front may have a left-to-right trajectory, and having a lower positioned centre speaker may make the sound image appear very strange high and low; some experienced people have told me this, and to avoid this, one can choose a pair of HIFI speakers with an excellent off-axis response to solve the problem.

 

[dickman]

Since the JBL's sound was excellent in the approximately 24 square meter sized room shown in the photos, I guess they will play excellently in your room as well (unless there are some other unfortunate things with your room). The bass was stunning. The meters on the Mcintosh amplifiers reached a maximum of approximately 50 watts (on a song by Peter Gabriel). so you do not need a powerful amplifier (I can recommend a Benchmark AHB2, but you may well have a good amplifier already). I still remember well my listening to them in that room, since the sound was very good.

The DD66000 has a recommended power of 500W. The 67000 used by designer Greg Timber himself at home uses four 300W mono amplifiers and a 120W stereo amplifier to drive the woofers, mid and tweeters respectively.

Greg Timbers

Greg Timbers Designer/Engineer for JBL. Interview

positive-feedback.com

Everest DD67000
DEQX HDP4
DEQX Premate
Pass Labs XVR1
Parasound JC1, 4 amplifiers, 1 for each woofer.
Quicksilver Mono 120, 1 for each large compression driver
Pioneer Elite A-20, for UHF compression driver
Pass Labs XP-15 Phono Stage
Basis Audio Debut Turntable with SuperArm 9 and Dynavector DV-20x
Tascam DA-3000, Digitizing LP's
MacMini running JRiver Media Center 22
PS Audio LanRover

I'm not very good at manually tuning crossover points, and I don't really have the budget for an additional electronic crossover, so I would like to purchase a pair of electrocompaniet aw600s, which will provide 600W of 8Ω and 1200W of 4Ω power, and I have checked that the minimum impedance of the 66000 is not less than 4Ω, so I think this should be more than enough.

 

[FrantzM]

As usual B&O is slighted by us , audiophiles... Please look at the measurements of the Beolab 90 and those of its older brother the Beolab 5.... If the Beolab 50 is cut from the same cloth and I tend to think that it is, it deserves to an audition. B&O speakers are no joke. They are also active, complete systems with extremely well thought-off DSP and room correction.
You just need a streamer... They're Airplay 2 compliant too...so...

From their website:
Frequency Range
< 15 to > 43,000 Hz

Maximum Sound Pressure Level @1m
120 dB SPL

Bass Capability
116 dB SPL


I would like to se those speakers reviewed here.. I know it is unlikely but the knee-jerk reaction to B&O is unfortunate... they deserve serious consideration.


Peace

 

[sprellemannen]

The DD66000 has a recommended power of 500W. The 67000 used by designer Greg Timber himself at home uses four 300W mono amplifiers and a 120W stereo amplifier to drive the woofers, mid and tweeters respectively.

Greg Timbers

Greg Timbers Designer/Engineer for JBL. Interview

positive-feedback.com

I'm not very good at manually tuning crossover points, and I don't really have the budget for an additional electronic crossover, so I would like to purchase a pair of electrocompaniet aw600s, which will provide 600W of 8Ω and 1200W of 4Ω power, and I have checked that the minimum impedance of the 66000 is not less than 4Ω, so I think this should be more than enough.

"The manual (with, one detects, a slightly sniffy air) suggests that the speakers: "will operate adequately with an amplifier or receiver of 70–100 watts", before going on to recommend 100–500 watts to "ensure optimal system performance"
link
You will do perfectly fine with an 100 watts amplifier (the JBL's sensivity is 96dB).