I posted this before as a question/answer in another thread, and @staticV3 mentioned that I should start a new thread about my question. (I know, another one who needs advice about monitors...) Anyway, I'll elaborate a bit on my situation. I'm setting up a room in my new house as a home studio. I enjoy producing electronic music; it's my hobby. I don't make money from it, and I'm not looking to make money; it just relaxes me. As I said, I'm going to produce music there and basically listen to music in nearfield scenario. The room dimensions are 5m long by 4.64m wide by 2.29m high. I have some acoustic treatment in place: bass traps and diffusers, but I'm still not sure if I'll end up using them. Especially after watching Erin's latest YouTube video about acoustic treatment, it's given me something to think about. My maximum budget, which I don't have yet (I know...), is around 5,000 euros. If it can be less, all the better. I have a young child at home. The idea is to buy speakers first, then a couple of subwoofers, and if the system doesn't have built-in DSP room correction, buy it separately. What do you recommend right now? I'd like to buy, enjoy, and forget about it, at least until I win the lottery so I can buy some duch&duch stuff or something similar. Any suggestions? Sorry for the long post... Also I've been using Neumann KH120A speakers with KH750 subwoofer and room correction. I liked them, but I'd like to know if there's anything else out there worth considering, like the KH120II.
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I need advice (looking for new studio monitors).
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Doenerkunde
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A few weeks ago a comment in a completely unrelated buying advice thread made a lasting impression on me:
www.audiosciencereview.com
The general gist of the comment was: You are in a messageboard for enthusiasts. There will be a tendency of advice to spend your whole budget or even push the threshold further. This might maximize "sound quality", but maybe this way of spending your money might not maximise your actual utility.
You are a new father and new home owner recreationally producing electronic music. You have a pair of Neumann KH120A, a KH750 Subwoofer and room correction.
Monitor wise this is your status quo:
Your current setup is very very good and pretty close to "state of the art". Maybe my comment is overreaching and lacking distance, but my advice would be to think about if it really makes sense to buy a completely new setup.
Buying advice - Ascilab / Audio First / Genelec
KEF stuff look really nice imo and i think they have grilles too. What do you mean by state of the art though? What is it that you actually want? The R11 Meta goes deep, has decently controlled directivity and can get as loud as you want. The Reference 1 Meta is smaller, is one of the most...
www.audiosciencereview.com
The general gist of the comment was: You are in a messageboard for enthusiasts. There will be a tendency of advice to spend your whole budget or even push the threshold further. This might maximize "sound quality", but maybe this way of spending your money might not maximise your actual utility.
You are a new father and new home owner recreationally producing electronic music. You have a pair of Neumann KH120A, a KH750 Subwoofer and room correction.
Monitor wise this is your status quo:
Your current setup is very very good and pretty close to "state of the art". Maybe my comment is overreaching and lacking distance, but my advice would be to think about if it really makes sense to buy a completely new setup.
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A few weeks ago a comment in a completely unrelated buying advice thread made a lasting impression on me:
Buying advice - Ascilab / Audio First / Genelec
KEF stuff look really nice imo and i think they have grilles too. What do you mean by state of the art though? What is it that you actually want? The R11 Meta goes deep, has decently controlled directivity and can get as loud as you want. The Reference 1 Meta is smaller, is one of the most...
The general gist of the comment was: You are in a messageboard for enthusiasts. There will be a tendency of advice to spend your whole budget or even push the threshold further. This might maximize "sound quality", but maybe this way of spending your money might not maximise your actual utility.
You are a new father and new home owner recreationally producing electronic music. You have a pair of Neumann KH120A, a KH750 Subwoofer and room correction.
Monitor wise this is your status quo:
View attachment 509145
Your current setup is very very good and pretty close to "state of the art". Maybe my comment is overreaching and lacking distance, but my advice would be to think about if it really makes sense to buy a completely new setup.
I think I didn't explain myself well. I had this system. I sold it because I needed money for an unexpected repair in the new house
. Now that we're all furnished, it's time for me to have my own space again. The question is whether to go back to Neumann, for example, buying a KH120II and two KH750 subwoofers, even though the price is steep, or if something like a Kali IN8 2nd Wave plus a Kali WS12 2nd Wave plus some DSP would be enough for me?When looking at directivity over frequency, distance between drivers/lobing and listening to bass in a non-treated room, I would not subscribe to this point of view.
In a nearfield scenario, I would recommend to test some speakers which offer a reduced distance between midrange and tweeter, less lobing and broader, more uniform directivity. Ideally a coaxial or 3-way monitor with small midrange driver.
How nearfield is nearfield in terms of listening distance? Before thinking of particular models, this might be important information.
If you want to judge bass transients, overall dynamics and subjective impulsiveness of treble sounds (which I find to be key for mixing electronic music), I would specifically look for monitors which deliver the tightest and deepest yet impactful bass, no vertical lobing and balanced midrange to treble tonality in a room. If ambience/imaging are of lesser concern, such as with EDM or club music, it is a good idea to compare monitors in question with excellent headphones. If the former sound somewhat ´slower´, more boomy in the bass or dull in the treble/brilliance band, I would consider these to be particularly inappropriate for mixing the music you like.
I would go for a new setup if I were you.
for example, what would that be? in the same ballpark as well so im following this thread. is the neumann kh310 ok? was reading about the KS Digital C88 (a bit expensiver) but according to online reviews they seem to really be good - no measurement reviews so far tho
It really depends on the listening distance, desired listening window (mixing engineers tend to move with their chais, stand up, or have a second listener standing behind them) and what the mixing engineer in question likes soundwise.
I am only familiar with its K+H predecessor which I would consider great regarding tonality and imaging for nearfield monitoring of classical music, but for popular music at higher SPL the bass was dissatisfying.
Only have sufficient experience with the smaller and the bigger models, and these would be my first suggestion, depending on the listening distance.
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Thanks for your knowledge; all of this helps me make a decision. Unfortunately, I probably won't be able to try out many speakers in person. That's why I'm hoping someone has been in a similar situation to mine and, if so, can offer me some advice.
As you know about electronic music, but don't forget:
When listen to and producing electronic music, you should have speakers/sub that can handle:
When listen to and producing electronic music, you should have speakers/sub that can handle:
seems like another recommendation for the KS Digital brand
Which ones do you have experience with and can you give few words around those? Im really amazed by that company and what i read online, and looking forward to buying something from them the more I read.. even the A100 might be quite powerful and enough - not sure.edit: my listening distance is 1.7-1.8m +-, fairly treated room with side panels of 15cm and 5cm air gap and ceiling clouds the same size with 30cm air gap, as well as soffit bass traps of 40cm
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The listening distance will be between 1m and 1.5m. Height is another matter...like everyone else, after spending hours in front of the screen I'll move my head down or to the side or whatever. I'm not a plant that can stay in the same position for very long
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For this reason, I think that perhaps a pair of subs of at least 12 inches is what I need.
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seems like another recommendation for the KS Digital brand
edit: my listening distance is 1.7-1.8m +-, fairly treated room with side panels of 15cm and 5cm air gap and ceiling clouds the same size with 30cm air gap, as well as soffit bass traps of 40cm
Years ago I was interested in the KS Digital C88, but since there are no reviews, I passed. I also think their DSP room controller, which they sell separately, is expensive.
yeah, thats what getting me a bit "off" from them, and they are at 5K EUR pair which is not cheap. however, whenever i search the internet i read WOW stuff about them
Closer to 1m, I would go for compact models and give KSD C-55 Reference a try. You might need an additional (closed-box) subwoofer, if you want to mix stuff with really really deep bass.
I am a bit reserved when it comes to WOW reports online, even by recording pros, and I had tried an earlier 8" version which was not perfect. But the smaller, current model C-55 in my understanding deserves exceptional reviews and I would give it a try. In the end of the day, the mixing engineer who is working with them, has to like them.
so for my listening distance of 1.8m i should go at least with the C55 with a sub or C88. I do really mix stuff with deep bass, electronic music as well. Also want to work at high SPL
I found the C55 to offer sufficient SPL reserves for any compact monitoring setup, it is just a matter of lower cutoff frequency in my understanding. Not sure if C88 would really be such an improvement here. At 1.8m you might want to try C-120 by the same manufacturer. Serious, club-worthy, bass reproduction from what I have heard (briefly).
Here you can probably find one that suits your needs:
I measured 10 subwoofers.
Hi, it's been a while! I would like to thank the people who made this project possible on a scale never before imagined in South Korea. I measured a total of 10 subwoofers, including my own DIY subwoofer(L26RO4Y), and measured them to the CEA-2010 standard using a Klippel TBM module. Below are...
www.audiosciencereview.com
If you can DIY then why not build with: https://loudspeakerdatabase.com/BMS/18N862
A bit OT, but close. There are some DIY with BMS 18N862 in the thread below. To get really low in frequency in a room (observe below 20 Hz) quote from that thread, #21
"What a coincidence. That particular video has now been commented on in another forum. Or rather the principle itself with Rotary Subwoofers:
You are unfortunately stuck in a theoretical vise because the distortion increases quickly when the rpm is too low and the turbulence noise increases quickly when the rpm is too high. In practice, you have to stick to frequencies below about 20 Hz and also accept a certain amount of noise. However, it should be possible to reduce both noise and distortion via a bandpass solution, but the solution will be extremely space-consuming.
It makes far more sense to construct closed boxes with many and/or large conventional woofers and utilize the room support if one wants to generate high sound pressure levels at 7-8 Hz or so (but why would want to do that, when there is practically nothing to listen to at such low frequencies). For example two BMS 18N862 are fine for infra purposes in a normal sized room, although the differences for such low frequencies will be very large depending on whether the room is sound sealed or not."
Ultra-low frequency Rotary Subwoofer
What a coincidence. That particular video has now been commented on in another forum. Or rather the principle itself with Rotary Subwoofers::) You are unfortunately stuck in a theoretical vise because the distortion increases quickly when the rpm is too low and the turbulence noise increases...
www.audiosciencereview.com
EERecordist
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You can go to Review Index > speakers > then sort on preference score, after that go down to your price point, then read reviews. The Neuman's or an older Genelec measure well and both have room correction systems. You could also look at used in your area.
If you are making money off your producing and mastering business, I would have some club friends to test it on with DJs who can drop it into a mix to see the reaction, other studios in town to test your mix on, and whatever speakers your paying clients expect when they visit which has nothing to do with measurements.
ZolaIII
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Uh huh where to start? This will sound wacky but who cares.
Wharfedale Linton's (85th Anniversary edition), an power amplifier with good unbalanced inputs (to what you prefer probably smaller one's). UMIK-1, MiniDSP Flex unbalanced and for rest of the budget dig in as much as you can to find a pair of good sub's. Go 2.2 stereo as speakers are big and so will be sub's best would be creating semi towers out of them still tweter needs to be in vertical line with ears.
Somehow most of 8" and above active speakers are either pretty bad or rather expensive.
Linton's are three way and you cut them high @ 120 Hz that way you get their woofer to be mid bass (beet/drum section) one and cristal clear (very low THD) cones on their own.
Aim at sub's that have best low 30's SPL, use a bit of Xroom as reinforcement (it will be just spot on at 5 m length).
www.audiosciencereview.com
To reach low bass range the depth of absorber chamber neads to be at least 12" and it's more about that then density and mass of material/materials used in multi layer. You can reach highs and mids much more easily and sorting them out and focusing highs with accustic treatment dose quit much. So some things are better done with DSP and other with accustic treatment and measurements show you what needs to be done.
As it is Mini DSP stuff dosent have equal loudness compensation so make pressets with it counted in (ISO 226 2003) to SPL you prefer to work on and small peace of advance when starting dial down volume for two 1.5 dB steps from what you subjectively find perfectly loud enough and then every 30~45 min gradually increase it one step (+1.5 dB) and when you reach +3 dB from initial impression it's time for moderate brake. ±6 dB boundary is psy 50% higher/lower volume level.
Wharfedale Linton's (85th Anniversary edition), an power amplifier with good unbalanced inputs (to what you prefer probably smaller one's). UMIK-1, MiniDSP Flex unbalanced and for rest of the budget dig in as much as you can to find a pair of good sub's. Go 2.2 stereo as speakers are big and so will be sub's best would be creating semi towers out of them still tweter needs to be in vertical line with ears.
Somehow most of 8" and above active speakers are either pretty bad or rather expensive.
Linton's are three way and you cut them high @ 120 Hz that way you get their woofer to be mid bass (beet/drum section) one and cristal clear (very low THD) cones on their own.
Aim at sub's that have best low 30's SPL, use a bit of Xroom as reinforcement (it will be just spot on at 5 m length).
Subwoofer Comparison
I've created a *slightly large* subwoofer comparison spreadsheet. :D Info: -==Link to my Subwoofer Comparison spreadsheet ==- https://bit.ly/SubwooferComparison
www.audiosciencereview.com
As it is Mini DSP stuff dosent have equal loudness compensation so make pressets with it counted in (ISO 226 2003) to SPL you prefer to work on and small peace of advance when starting dial down volume for two 1.5 dB steps from what you subjectively find perfectly loud enough and then every 30~45 min gradually increase it one step (+1.5 dB) and when you reach +3 dB from initial impression it's time for moderate brake. ±6 dB boundary is psy 50% higher/lower volume level.
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