I have an embarrassingly unsophisticated digital audio capture question

[mhardy6647]

Moderator(s) - by all means feel free to move this if there's a better place for it!

I am frustrated by the playback quality of streaming audio I capture using Audacity on a Wintel computer.
I am also very naive on the fine points of the subject, so I have (finally!) gotten up the gumption to ask you all for help/advice!
The only way I know to capture streaming audio (e.g., a radio program stream that isn't otherwise available for downloading) is to use Windows WASAPI with the source as "speakers... (loopback)". Monitoring the audio during "recording" sounds fine, but playback is always much poorer in quality -- sort of a grainy, echo-y quality.
I have (I think!) turned off any sort of processing (e.g., "spatial sound" and other similar nonsense) which seemed to help a little, but still not getting the same quality of "recorded" audio vs. input audio (stream).
I can provide more information (s/w versions, hardware) if necessary - but just imagine as plain vanilla of a platform to do this as is possible (an old Lenovo laptop, Win 10, default drivers, and - in full disclosure - an elderly version of Audacity.

Any help or suggestions are very much appreciated!
Thank you.

 

[Hayabusa]

Moderator(s) - by all means feel free to move this if there's a better place for it!

I am frustrated by the playback quality of streaming audio I capture using Audacity on a Wintel computer.
I am also very naive on the fine points of the subject, so I have (finally!) gotten up the gumption to ask you all for help/advice!
The only way I know to capture streaming audio (e.g., a radio program stream that isn't otherwise available for downloading) is to use Windows WASAPI with the source as "speakers... (loopback)". Monitoring the audio during "recording" sounds fine, but playback is always much poorer in quality -- sort of a grainy, echo-y quality.
I have (I think!) turned off any sort of processing (e.g., "spatial sound" and other similar nonsense) which seemed to help a little, but still not getting the same quality of "recorded" audio vs. input audio (stream).
I can provide more information (s/w versions, hardware) if necessary - but just imagine as plain vanilla of a platform to do this as is possible (an old Lenovo laptop, Win 10, default drivers, and - in full disclosure - an elderly version of Audacity.

Any help or suggestions are very much appreciated!
Thank you.

you created a loop by monitoring?

 

[pjug]

Have you tried VB Audio virtual cable? The HiFi one is bit perfect.

VB-Audio Virtual Apps

VB-Audio Virtual Cable and App's

vb-audio.com

So then you use Audacity same as you would, but you use virtual cable for your computer's sound input and output, which allows a direct digital capture.

 

[mhardy6647]

Have you tried VB Audio virtual cable? The HiFi one is bit perfect.

VB-Audio Virtual Apps

VB-Audio Virtual Cable and App's

vb-audio.com

So then you use Audacity same as you would, but you use virtual cable for your computer's sound input and output, which allows a direct digital capture.

No -- but it's intriguing. These folks and their s/w are legit? Sorry if the question seems crass, but I am always a little leery of unknowns on the internet.

 

[NTK]

No -- but it's intriguing. These folks and their s/w are legit? Sorry if the question seems crass, but I am always a little leery of unknowns on the internet.

Member @dualazmak uses VB-Audio Matrix audio router in his system. Seems legit to me. May be you can ask him.

Let's share diagrams (and photos) of our total physical audio system and the whole signal path, with a few words and/or links

Prior to starting this new thread, I have searched all the thread titles within ASR Forum by a key word "diagram" and found we have no similar thread like this; if you know/find some, please let me know. I always believe one diagram or one photo would worth more than 1,000 words especially for...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[mhardy6647]

Thank you @NTK!

 

[Keith_W]

I use VB Matrix. I can confirm that it works as advertised. In fact, this software is jaw dropping amazing. If you have more than 1 DAC, it can tie them all together and make a multichannel DAC!

 

[dualazmak]

Member @dualazmak uses VB-Audio Matrix audio router in his system. Seems legit to me. May be you can ask him.

Let's share diagrams (and photos) of our total physical audio system and the whole signal path, with a few words and/or links

Prior to starting this new thread, I have searched all the thread titles within ASR Forum by a key word "diagram" and found we have no similar thread like this; if you know/find some, please let me know. I always believe one diagram or one photo would worth more than 1,000 words especially for...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thank you @NTK!

Thank you for your attention on my use case of VB-AUDIO MATRIX.
You would please find the details of its utilization in my setup in my post #931 on my project thread.

I use VB Matrix. I can confirm that it works as advertised. In fact, this software is jaw dropping amazing. If you have more than 1 DAC, it can tie them all together and make a multichannel DAC!

Yes, I agree, but we should be most careful about the exact synchronization (or not) of multiple DAC units even we have "Master CLOCK" feature in VB MATRIX.
At least for me, since I use 8-Ch DAC unit OKTO DAC8PRO, fortunately I have no out-of-sync issue in my DSP-based multichannel setup.

I believe we may better to invite @boxerfan88 and @mdsimon2 for in depth insights on exact synchronization (or not) of multiple DAC units using VB-AUDIO MATRIX.

My experiments under the spoiler would be of some interest and reference for you, even though I was still using ASIO4ALL, not VB MATRIX, at that time.

Spoiler: Can I (we) temporarily synchronize outputs of multiple DAC units (each of them has own independent ASIO driver)

- Can I (we) temporarily synchronize outputs of multiple DAC units (each of them has own independent ASIO driver) in 10 micro second (0.01 msec) precision in DSP-based multichannel audio setup?: #783
- Can I (we) temporarily synchronize outputs of multiple DAC units (each of them has own independent ASIO driver) in 10 micro second (0.01 msec) precision in DSP-based multichannel audio setup? Part-2: Simplified experiments without using audio mixer: #804

 

[DVDdoug]

In Audacity you need to turn OFF Audible Input Monitoring. If it's enabled when recording "loopback" (output from the soundcard) you are creating an internal feedback loop by recording what you're monitoring and monitoring what you are recording.

 

[mhardy6647]

In Audacity you need to turn OFF Audible Input Monitoring. If it's enabled when recording "loopback" (output from the soundcard) you are creating an internal feedback loop by recording what you're monitoring and monitoring what you are recording.

This is great to know! I cannot remember if I have ever tried that - but it is readily testable, so I shall so do.
Thank you!
And thank you, too, @dualazmak and @Keith_W!

 

[Multicore]

you created a loop by monitoring?

Right. You need to mute the DAW track that you're recording into.

 

[boxerfan88]

Moderator(s) - by all means feel free to move this if there's a better place for it!

I am frustrated by the playback quality of streaming audio I capture using Audacity on a Wintel computer.
I am also very naive on the fine points of the subject, so I have (finally!) gotten up the gumption to ask you all for help/advice!
The only way I know to capture streaming audio (e.g., a radio program stream that isn't otherwise available for downloading) is to use Windows WASAPI with the source as "speakers... (loopback)". Monitoring the audio during "recording" sounds fine, but playback is always much poorer in quality -- sort of a grainy, echo-y quality.
I have (I think!) turned off any sort of processing (e.g., "spatial sound" and other similar nonsense) which seemed to help a little, but still not getting the same quality of "recorded" audio vs. input audio (stream).
I can provide more information (s/w versions, hardware) if necessary - but just imagine as plain vanilla of a platform to do this as is possible (an old Lenovo laptop, Win 10, default drivers, and - in full disclosure - an elderly version of Audacity.

Any help or suggestions are very much appreciated!
Thank you.

I tested this, it should work for your use case.

1. Download and install VB-Audio HiFi Cable. (about 2/3 down the page) https://vb-audio.com/Cable/

2. Use Windows Sound Control Panel to configure HiFi Cable to your desired sample rate ... for example 24bits 48kHz. Both input & output must be the same configuration.

3. Configure Audacity to record from HiFi Cable Out.

4. Configure Audacity "Audio Settings" and setup the correct sample rate. (My example shows 176400).

5. Configure your player application to play into "HiFi Cable In".

6. Set Audacity to record. Enjoy!

^ I think VB-Matrix might be too complicated or complex for your use case. HiFi Cable is better match to your use case of just recording an internet stream.

^^ Reminder -- step #2 & #4 are very important, and the sample rate must match.
.

 

[mhardy6647]

EDIT: Well, one post that I thought I posted has been lost to the bit maelstrom Here's a synopsis. The version of Audacity I had on this particular computer is (was) quite old, 2.3.3 and lacked the audible input monitoring "feature" under Transport Options.

So...
I installed 3.6.1 and determined that audible input monitoring was indeed turned off.

Recorded some streaming audio from vermontpublic.org (our local public radio outlet) -- and playback still sounds like (to quote Calvin of ... and Hobbes fame) bat barf.

 

[mhardy6647]

Thanks, @boxerfan88 -- I will look into VB-Audio HiFi Cable on the morrow.

 

[boxerfan88]

Check this "Audible input monitoring" setting in Audacity ... UNCHECK it.

 

[boxerfan88]

Thanks, @boxerfan88 -- I will look into VB-Audio HiFi Cable on the morrow.

I found an even easier way ... no need for HiFi Cable at all.

1. I assume you are using your browser to play the stream through to your PC Speaker.

2. Ensure the "Audible input monitoring" is switched off (refer to earlier post).

3. Configure Audacity to record from your default "PC Speaker (loopback)"

4. Set the sample rate to 48000.

5. Record.

A. I did a test with vermontpublic.org.

B. This was the result. Super clear recording.

https://file.io/cr46CzNNoywz

.

 

[mhardy6647]

I found an even easier way ... no need for HiFi Cable at all.

1. I assume you are using your browser to play the stream through to your PC Speaker.

2. Ensure the "Audible input monitoring" is switched off (refer to earlier post).

3. Configure Audacity to record from your default "PC Speaker (loopback)"

View attachment 388891

4. Set the sample rate to 48000.

5. Record.

A. I did a test with vermontpublic.org.

View attachment 388890

B. This was the result. Super clear recording.

https://file.io/cr46CzNNoywz

.

So, yes, that's the way I have always done it, with warbly/murky results.
BUT -- I have not re-set the sample rate, so that I shall try!
Thank you, again, for assistance & suggestions. I am a babe in the woods with this stuff, so I will try anything and report back. I'll include audio, too, irrespective of the result.

Further details as events warrant.