I have a question, has anyone else noticed this?

[Spkrdctr]

I wish we could all post on speaker reviews, DAC and AVR/amp reviews if we own the product or have used it. I was drinking my coffee and doing some thinking. Once the cobwebs cleared out and I was rational, I thought of this. My made up example (after reading the KEF LS50 thread (35 pages worth I believe) is that Amir posts up a review and then a bunch (a lot!) of people chime in with all kinds of set up advice, how the speaker sounds, how to integrate a sub with it, what KEF engineers were doing during design/prototype stage and on and on. It dawned on me that probably 70% of all of the people giving out advice and thoughts on all kinds of aspects of the speaker had probably never heard that speaker in their life. Maybe 15% had heard one but never played with it to really get a feel for it and how it sounds. The other 10% owned it and had extensive listening experience, sub integration experience and other interesting advice to give. So, I'm guessing at the numbers of course, but you all get the idea. So in reading the thread through all at one time, I came away with the fact that probably 50% or more of all of the advice and opinions were pretty much worthless. The poster had no knowledge at all about the speaker and was making grand assumptions based on extrapolations from Amir's tests.
So, I just found it fascinating. Especially the extrapolations from the data Amir, posted. Those extrapolations in all reality were no more than guesses. A few actually had heard the speakers somewhere and had an opinion which seemed to be more interesting. But the real interesting info was from the people who owned them and had used them extensively and integrated a sub or two etc. Those were the most interesting and really seemed to give good advice that dovetailed with Amir's tests in most respect but not 100%.
So, has anyone else noticed this? Not this particular example but the entire concept of what I'm saying. A ton, a buttload and a whole bunch of advice and theory about what was tested is put forth that is 100% subjective because it takes a few graphs from Amir and extrapolates pretty far from Amir's test to conclude a lot of suspect opinions etc. What do you guy think? I'm not saying it is wrong or right, it is what it is, but it does seem to sneak into a subjective conversation on products when most of the info is not based on fact. I hope I explained my self well. If not I can clarify more I was only using the KEF speaker review as an example, not a perfect example by any means, just to get the concept of my idea across for many, many products on ASR. Let me know what you think and sorry I posted such a long post to get my idea across.

 

[Axo1989]

Well, you are elaborating Sturgeon's law, which applies to social media.

 

[okaudio]

Welcome to the internet of things.

Bottom line is as always, look the the measurements and then, only if you wish, continue on and choose your opinions wisely.

For example, when I'm looking at an ASR speaker review I focus on the measurements and most often don't even read the listening test. Of course everyone has to weigh all the data available to them by their own importance factors. Also note that sometimes common defects show up in the comments that the measurements didn't see for the one specific unit.

 

[TheBatsEar]

That is truly horrible. What can we do?

 

[TheBatsEar]

Seriously, i think despite the amount of BS, people get corrected fast and good information is given in the end. Also, you don't need to taste every brand of spaghetti to know how to prepare spaghetti.

 

[ZolaIII]

That's why you have forum's like this in the first place (and owner trades) it's up to everyone individually to learn to distinguish useful from generic and spam. It whose always like that.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Good responses. I wanted to see what others thought. Thanks!

 

[AdamG]

Good responses. I wanted to see what others thought. Thanks!

May I suggest to you and anyone in a similar situation. You are welcome and encouraged to start a Owner’s Thread. In your opening post you can request that contributors to the conversation should currently Own this specific Speaker/DAC/Amp/AVR…Or have owned at one time. While it might prove a bit difficult to enforce your request, as a Moderator I would be willing to help the OP maintain some amount of containment. Owner’s Threads work in other Forums like AVS and the like. In your first post you could also include a link to Amir’s Review.

This is just a suggestion as a means for possibly reducing the clutter posts we find in review threads. Certainly can’t hurt to try.

 

[pseudoid]

So in reading the thread through all at one time, I came away with the fact that probably 50% or more of all of the advice and opinions were pretty much worthless.

The poster had no knowledge at all about the speaker and was making grand assumptions based on extrapolations from Amir's tests.

A few actually had heard the speakers somewhere and had an opinion which seemed to be more interesting.

I'm not saying it is wrong

I don't mean to take these segments out of your relevant post... but...
I have been known to make a snarky reply <Why Not?> when someone chimes-in with "I did not want to read all the previous replies... but..."
It seems to me that you are rightfully wishing you could be a speed-reader and consume all the relevant threads/posts in one fell swoop!
But the individual has always been the one who is required to remove the 'wheat from the chaff' (or vice versa).
Your pertinent removal (extraction) of relevant information you seek may (is) different than any other reader's own...
I hate that I waste so much time doing the above chores for each post/thread that is relevant to me and I also bitch-n-moan about having to read thru the irrelevant to senseless fluff but I always end up happy that I took the time and (hopefully) came across much relevant knowledge DESPITE the 'chaff'.
I keep telling myself that "READING" (knowledge gathering?) should never be considered a CHORE due to its vast time-consumption.
In our desires to maximize our time-management; as a society, we have assigned many of our activities as CHOREs: *Eating, *walking, *exercising, even *sleep and maybe even this *reply...
... anything else would began to smell like censorship

 

[TheBatsEar]

May I suggest to you and anyone in a similar situation. You are welcome and encouraged to start a Owner’s Thread. In your opening post you can request that contributors to the conversation should currently Own this specific Speaker/DAC/Amp/AVR…Or have owned at one time. While it might prove a bit difficult to enforce your request, as a Moderator I would be willing to help the OP maintain some amount of containment. Owner’s Threads work in other Forums like AVS and the like. In your first post you could also include a link to Amir’s Review.

This is just a suggestion as a means for possibly reducing the clutter posts we find in review threads. Certainly can’t hurt to try.

Good idea, but its not working, check the two MiniDSP Flex threads, people don't make a distinction.

 

[Vict0r]

You should visit Head-Fi. You've got people there reviewing, recommending and comparing in-ears and headphones they've never even seen, let alone heard. One of the more common rules over there is "haven't heard it? don't recommend it." but that doesn't seem to stop anyone really.

 

[AdamG]

Good idea, but its not working, check the two MiniDSP Flex threads, people don't make a distinction.

I think that’s because we have yet to establish the Owners thread culture here. With time and exposure our Members will adapt and make appropriate course corrections with self policing and peer pressure within the Owner’s thread. The OP is free to request a picture of this specific gear in your setup to participate. I don’t think that is necessary. We just need to challenge new entrants in the thread to confirm they own or have owned the subject gear.

 

[Timcognito]

If the post has no graph or table just read the ones that have a lot of likes on those 10+ page posts. Don't chime in too early like I just did.

 

[pseudoid]

You should visit Head-Fi.

a very bad suggestion...

 

[pseudoid]

The REAL irrelevant "chaff" is properly 'bleached' by none other than that dude with the yellow highlighter under his namesake.
AdamG247- Chief Chaff Moderator

 

[TimF]

The science of weather. And then there is the personal statements about what it is like to live in Minnesota in the winter.

 

[Inner Space]

I sometimes wonder if the opposite suggestion might be better - don't post if you own the stuff. So much nonsense seems to be generated by butt-hurt owners unable to process legitimate negatives. Like the regenerator threads right now ... lots of stuff that can't be measured but can be heard, dammit!

 

[Slayer]

I think it's human nature for people to respond (post) on a subject whether knowledgeable or not, however relevant or irrelevant their opinion may be. They just want to be heard so to speak. Many if not most, have good intentions, but there will always be those who just feel the need to interject regardless.
There have been several times where I myself, have started to make a post until I catch myself and realize there are those here with much more knowledge on that particular subject at hand. Therefor my thoughts might best be left out of the discussion. Let the experts on that subject continue on, while I hopefully take the time to absorb the knowledge being presented and keeping my trap shut.

 

[AdamG]

I sometimes wonder if the opposite suggestion might be better - don't post if you own the stuff. So much nonsense seems to be generated by butt-hurt owners unable to process legitimate negatives. Like the regenerator threads right now ... lots of stuff that can't be measured but can be heard, dammit!

Ahhh, but maybe possibly an Owner’s Thread will give them an outlet, or a place to ruminate outside of the Official Review Thread.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I don't mean to take these segments out of your relevant post... but...
I have been known to make a snarky reply <Why Not?> when someone chimes-in with "I did not want to read all the previous replies... but..."
It seems to me that you are rightfully wishing you could be a speed-reader and consume all the relevant threads/posts in one fell swoop!
But the individual has always been the one who is required to remove the 'wheat from the chaff' (or vice versa).
Your pertinent removal (extraction) of relevant information you seek may (is) different than any other reader's own...
I hate that I waste so much time doing the above chores for each post/thread that is relevant to me and I also bitch-n-moan about having to read thru the irrelevant to senseless fluff but I always end up happy that I took the time and (hopefully) came across much relevant knowledge DESPITE the 'chaff'.
I keep telling myself that "READING" (knowledge gathering?) should never be considered a CHORE due to its vast time-consumption.
In our desires to maximize our time-management; as a society, we have assigned many of our activities as CHOREs: *Eating, *walking, *exercising, even *sleep and maybe even this *reply...
... anything else would began to smell like censorship

I wasn't looking at it from having to do a lot of reading. I was coming at it from the idea that people post assumptions, based on nothing and try to extrapolate huge amounts of information from Amir's reviews that are really so extrapolated that they are fictitious. Which then made me think, in doing so, are we not doing exactly what subjectivists do on a daily basis? If we look at Amir's work and read the charts and divine the true interpretation of the chart (whatever that means to each individual) and then make all sorts of posts on how this is bad or that will do this in a room or maybe that will not integrate with a sub very well and on and on. When no one knows! They are making fairly large leaps into the unknown exactly as subjectivists do. The difference is the ASR people start with Amir's review and the subjectivists don't even bother with the measurements.
But with one look at the charts and we are off and running with all kinds of posts about all kinds of product behavior written by people who have never even seen or heard the product. So we are only one small step away from being a pure subjectivist (OK, I might be exaggerating for effect here)! It was just me thinking over my cup of coffee about how dangerously close we get on a daily basis to being subjectivists without even realizing it. It was just something to think about. I know I got the brain cells going if I have Adams attention!

Regardless ASR is till the best audio site on the internet period! Audioholics is second.