• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

I don't care about stereo imaging - am I alone. (Poll)

How important is the stereo image to you.

  • It is everything - I won't listen without it.

    Votes: 43 12.5%
  • Important - music lacks enjoyment without it

    Votes: 132 38.5%
  • Nice to have - Still enjoy the music if not there.

    Votes: 144 42.0%
  • Meh!

    Votes: 24 7.0%

  • Total voters
    343

30 Ounce

Active Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2019
Messages
155
Likes
217
Or it could just be because music is something that 1) makes you wanna move 2) is to be appreciated with other people

Both of these things are handled very poorly in stereo
Very true! If your dancing stereo is useless and in fact can be a detriment. But I think several people could enjoy stereo setup at the same time but only one will be able to have the optimal position.
 

Waxx

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2021
Messages
1,931
Likes
7,688
Location
Wodecq, Hainaut, Belgium
Music is more important than those technicallities. And a big part of the music i listen to is made in mono, some is old, some is dj music that works better in mono in clubs and raves so it's released in (dual) mono. And i don't miss the stereo there. But a good stereo image is great.
 

Geert

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
1,938
Likes
3,526
Or it could just be because music is something that 1) makes you wanna move 2) is to be appreciated with other people. Both of these things are handled very poorly in stereo
What do you mean by this? I've seen millions of people dancing and partying on stereo (and mono) music.
 

abdo123

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
7,425
Likes
7,941
Location
Brussels, Belgium
What do you mean by this? I've seen millions of people dancing and partying on stereo (and mono) music.

Don't you think the experience would be better without the impression that the music is moving around the room with you?
 

Geert

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
1,938
Likes
3,526
Don't you think the experience would be better without the impression that the music is moving around the room with you?
Better yes, but that doesn't make stereo poor.
 
OP
antcollinet

antcollinet

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 4, 2021
Messages
7,409
Likes
12,294
Location
UK/Cheshire
I don’t agree with your view at all. Getting the soundstage/imaging right also improves all the areas you claim to appreciate; clarity, frequency balance, etc.. A properly set up stereo can immerse you in sound if that was on the recording. Sounds to me like you would prefer a surround sound setup. I prefer a stereo setup that presents a realistic stage in front of me. It adds to my enjoyment of music. I have a dedicated listening room that I have spent countless hours fine tuning, measuring, retuning to get the soundstage right. I assume that your lack of appreciation of a soundstage/stereo imaging is because you haven’t heard a properly setup system. Then again, everybody has an opinion.
You could equally say that getting clarity, FR balance etc right improves the sound stage.

I have a soundstage with my system, though I don't percieve depth, just width. My room is a dedicated cinema with stereo option. Soundstage got better when I improved those other things with room EQ. I just don't listen to it or try to percieve it, or care if I hear it. I would be interested to hear surround recorded music, but don't have access to any at the moment.

I dunno - perhaps this is something to do with my right ear tinnitus.

I'm thinking of going to a "high end" show in a couple of weeks. If I do, I'll check to see if my opinion of soundstage is challenged. :D
 

Sokel

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Messages
5,844
Likes
5,787
$100k Wilson Audio and a sofa is an enjoyment. Pinpoint band member or group of instrument in an orchestra sitting at the sofa.
I don't have Wilson's but I have a nice 3.5 meters sofa as my MLP which sometimes I even lie down and listen (no image obviously) in my dedicated,does it count? :cool:
 

Talisman

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 27, 2022
Messages
897
Likes
2,547
Location
Milano Italy
Trigger warning for subjective descriptions :cool:

I see a lot of people obsessing about stereo image. Width, depth, height - it all seems to be important. Even more so in the more subjective arenas "...like you could pluck the instruments out of the air..."

If I set myself up for listening - dead center between the speakers, equalateral triangle etc, I can easily detect the image with appropriate music. But it does absolutely nothing for my listening enjoyment. It's an "oh yes, there it is - now lets get back to the music"

For me good sound quality is balanced freqency response, and most important - clarity of the music (which I describe as ease of hearing each voice/instrument, and each note distinctly and without blurring into the general sound. I also like to be "in the music" rather than looking in it. Playing from a single speaker is less enjoyable than playing from two - even if the sound is mono. Fake surround doesn't work for me though for music (at least not on my surround system) as it results in a loss of clarity. Movie tracks presumably mixed for multi channel are fine though. I've not listened to any multi channel music.

So am I the only one who doesn't care about imaging? Or is it common?
I feel exactly like you in this. If I'm far enough away from the two speakers not to hear two separate listening points then I'm ok, I don't care if the double bass is 40 cm further back than the harpsichord..... that's not what gives me listening pleasure.
But on the other hand many are passionate about chamber music or orchestral music, they go to concerts and like to replicate the feeling. I listen to electronic or even rock music, but at concerts I definitely don't listen to the placement of the guitar, but to the huge speaker arrays. For me, the 3D image simply means little or nothing.
 

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
It really depends on the music. Some electronic music in particular uses a lot of panning and odd phasing effects etc. Some music goes entirely behind me as I listen, for example. It would detract somewhat to not hear that.
 

Edv

New Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2023
Messages
2
Likes
3
I care about HiFi, high fidelity of sound reproduction.
Imaging, “sound stage”, depth etc is a very important part of real live music experience.

Once I heard an audio system that gave that 3D music reproduction I could not think of HiFi without it.

Once photography was considered “real live” visual reproduction.
Then movie was considered “real live” visual reproduction.
Now virtual reality is considered “real live” visual reproduction.

The same goes for “real live” music reproduction. I can’t image enthousiasts of (gear for) music reproduction NOT care about imaging etc.!!
 

Talisman

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 27, 2022
Messages
897
Likes
2,547
Location
Milano Italy
.
However, I believe that the concept of "imaging" cannot be compared to that of frequency response.
Frequency response, given the speakers, given the listening environment and given the listening position, can be defined scientifically. The concept of imaging is always much hazier, and for many, despite the same conditions, the response is different.
As with headphones, where some can perceive a 3D stage, others not, for some certain speakers "focus" the instruments or are able to give "depth to the stage" or instead width, or height, but hardly for two people different these sensations will be the same.
For example, I have great difficulty feeling these sensations in any configuration.
 

Sokel

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Messages
5,844
Likes
5,787
If some friend here really wants to test depth there's two plays that will knock you off,try them!



depth2.jpg




Depth.jpg


Edit:Got a video too for the first,sound is awful but it gives some hints:

 
Last edited:

MaxwellsEq

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,628
Likes
2,427
I'm not sure an objective scientific position "requires" that. Is there anything a recording engineer does to create depth - Ie is that something objectively present in the recorded sound? - or is that purely illusion from speaker dispersion and/or room interaction? Even if objectively present in the recorded sound, I see no scientific "requirement" to use it.
It is not something created by the engineer. It's not something artificial in your listening room. It is not something in people's brains.

It is captured automatically by the level and phase differences between two microphones relatively close to each other. It's an inevitable consequence of this method of recording. I've heard a quartet simply mic-ed in the studio create a rock solid image in the control room next door via tie-lines and an analogue mixing desk without any eq or reverb added.
 

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
It is not something created by the engineer. It's not something artificial in your listening room. It is not something in people's brains.

It is captured automatically by the level and phase differences between two microphones relatively close to each other. It's an inevitable consequence of this method of recording. I've heard a quartet simply mic-ed in the studio create a rock solid image in the control room next door via tie-lines and an analogue mixing desk without any eq or reverb added.
Yes. You may or may not experience it in your listening room, or care. But it's not imaginary.
 

Cote Dazur

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Feb 25, 2022
Messages
619
Likes
758
Location
Canada
I think poll question is misleading, to me, in my main set up and in my second room set up, “It is everything - I won't listen without it.”, but I also listen to music outside of those two rooms/set ups, or on headphones/IEM and then my answer would be, “Nice to have - Still enjoy the music if not there”.
My interest in listening to music is not limited to listening in stereo to my music on my main system, but when I sit in my listening chair, listening to a well made recording, I absolutely expect nothing less than spectacular imaging.
 

tomtoo

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 20, 2019
Messages
3,607
Likes
4,514
Location
Germany
Thats one of the most "put gasoline into the fire" questions that you can ask. Espeacaly if you think about how wide is a mono source in a stereo image?
Have fun? ;)
And how to make mono sources wider on a mixer?
 
Last edited:

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
Thats one of the most "put gasoline into the fire" questions that you can ask. Espeacaly if you think about how wide is a mono source in a stereo image?
Have fun? ;)
Mine sounds about two feet wide (61cm). Or, about a person's width, which is handy for singers.
 

pkane

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
5,632
Likes
10,206
Location
North-East
Trigger warning for subjective descriptions :cool:

I see a lot of people obsessing about stereo image. Width, depth, height - it all seems to be important. Even more so in the more subjective arenas "...like you could pluck the instruments out of the air..."

If I set myself up for listening - dead center between the speakers, equalateral triangle etc, I can easily detect the image with appropriate music. But it does absolutely nothing for my listening enjoyment. It's an "oh yes, there it is - now lets get back to the music"

For me good sound quality is balanced freqency response, and most important - clarity of the music (which I describe as ease of hearing each voice/instrument, and each note distinctly and without blurring into the general sound. I also like to be "in the music" rather than looking in it. Playing from a single speaker is less enjoyable than playing from two - even if the sound is mono. Fake surround doesn't work for me though for music (at least not on my surround system) as it results in a loss of clarity. Movie tracks presumably mixed for multi channel are fine though. I've not listened to any multi channel music.

So am I the only one who doesn't care about imaging? Or is it common?

I'm with @KSTR in that I really enjoy an immersive music experience. But that's often not how I listen to music, which is frequently played on my computer and speakers, phone+IEMs or even one of those bluetooth speakers. I love music and enjoy it on almost anything, as long as it doesn't produce too much distortion and noise to distract.

My main system images well, and I often hear recorded sounds coming from the other room or floating completely separated from the speaker positions. It's enjoyable to hear the ambiance in the recording and feel like you are at the recording venue, even if this is artificially created . My video system is multi-channel, and I play music there sometimes. Video is where the spatial illusion becomes indispensable. I get complaints from everyone when the surrounds are not on, or the subwoofer is disconnected. I now find it difficult to watch a movie without surround sound myself.

So, I listen to and enjoy music on almost anything that can reproduce it without major artifacts. But I also enjoy the "being there" illusion that a good recording (or mastering) is capable of producing and wouldn't want to be without a system that's capable of creating such an illusion.
 

Frank Dernie

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
6,445
Likes
15,781
Location
Oxfordshire
It is not something created by the engineer. It's not something artificial in your listening room. It is not something in people's brains.

It is captured automatically by the level and phase differences between two microphones relatively close to each other. It's an inevitable consequence of this method of recording. I've heard a quartet simply mic-ed in the studio create a rock solid image in the control room next door via tie-lines and an analogue mixing desk without any eq or reverb added.
Again it is something inherent at least as much to the recording as to the equipment we listen on IME.

I have heard a demo of DSP speaker correction of amplitude and phase step by step where the improvement in stereo image at each stage was quite marked in a simply miked oldish classical recording but barely noticeable on a rock album mixed from multiple microphones.

Many years ago a member of another forum posted brief excerpts from a recording he was involved with. They had an old fashioned stereo mike setup in addition to spot mikes all over the orchestra and chorus (Handel’s Messiah iirc) and the excerpts from the simply miked recording had a much more natural stereo image than the mix they did from the large number of microphones but, obviously, was a bit noisier.

Sadly they only issued the multi track recording which is still enjoyable but I preferred the simply miked one myself.
 
Top Bottom