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I did measure a difference between my new Kimber 12TC and AudioQuest 14/4

Sokel

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I've done things like this and gotten much better results. The key thing is a steady microphone mount that you do not move, and that you do not move the speaker or speakers. BTW, if you are using two speakers don't. Just use one. You mentioned putting it on a middle seat, that is not going to give good results. A table, a microphone stand or a camera tripod would work. The stands or tripods need to be on the floor. The small Umik tripod will work on a sturdy table top.
Second run has a wrong connection for sure,seems out of phase.
 
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DannyBukem

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Sorry; I meant to say , it’s using the Umik -1 on its tripod on the middle seat.
 
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DannyBukem

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Also, the right test procedure would be something like:
1. attach cable 1, and measure it 5 times.
2. attach cable 2, and measure it 5 times.
3. attach cable 1, and measure it 5 times.
4. attach cable 2, and measure it 5 times.
5. attach cable 1, and measure it 5 times.
6. attach cable 2, and measure it 5 times.
7. attach cable 1, and measure it 5 times.
8. attach cable 2, and measure it 5 times.
9. attach cable 1, and measure it 5 times.
10. attach cable 2, and measure it 5 times.
....
19. attach cable 1, and measure it 5 times.
20. attach cable 2, and measure it 5 times.

Then calculate the mean and standard deviation of all measurement points and plot both the means curves, and means+2.3*std.dev and means-2.3*std.dev curves, and see if they overlap
I will give this a try! Thanks Guys for the suggestions and helping me get to the bottom of it!
 
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DannyBukem

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When you measure the same cable, do you remove it from the speaker at and put it back on?
No i dont, i just do a reading one after another.
I've done things like this and gotten much better results. The key thing is a steady microphone mount that you do not move, and that you do not move the speaker or speakers. BTW, if you are using two speakers don't. Just use one. You mentioned putting it on a middle seat, that is not going to give good results. A table, a microphone stand or a camera tripod would work. The stands or tripods need to be on the floor. The small Umik tripod will work on a sturdy table top.
I didnt think about using just one Speaker. I guess my goal was to mimic how i listen.
 
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DannyBukem

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Well, if you did 5 runs of one cable, then touch something, then do 5 runs of another cable, then each group of 5 runs will have little difference amongst themselves. It's alternating between the cables that removes random variations.

Especially when those look like room modes and one simply has a higher Q so where people stand in the room matters...

In any case, if you find a diff, send the cables to some audio magazine or something and maybe earn a sponsor
Haha trust me! I dont want a sponsor... my friends will all give me grief as i have said for years cables dont really make a difference ;-).
 

nerdstrike

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I will give this a try! Thanks Guys for the suggestions and helping me get to the bottom of it!
Before you sink tonnes of time on the jensgk's protocol, carefully recheck your experimental setup for cabling blunders and so on. Statistically significant results are useful for filtering out anomalies, but they're no help with systematic errors.
 

fineMen

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There is a difference….. anyone know maybe why?
Yes, resistance or a measurement failure. The frequency range in question is regularly that with the lowest impedance readings, and would hence be most sensitive to contact problems and all.

Measurement failure is common, to say the least. But in case you find new physics, please hand it over to me for review. We'll then have the Nobel Price together. I'm going to buy a brand new tie for this event, promissed.
 
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Frank2

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To add to the already mentioned possibilities:
  • did you have to move the speakers when switching cables?
  • was the microphone at exactly the same height, tilted exactly the same?
  • if you measure left and right simultaneously you'll get interferences that can vary a lot if you move the microphone just a little bit.
  • did you put something in between the speakers and the microphone, such as a roll of speaker cable on a table or something?
  • was the frequency sweep of the same duration?
 
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DannyBukem

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Using a microphone to measure anything but loudspeaker and/or room frequency response is just wheel spinning !
I guess i just assumed that its the easiest test really, to see what is heard by the Mic when things change. The advocates for speaker cables always say "You cant measure changes, its what sounds best" which always felt like B.S to me as your brain plays tricks on you., i just wanted to see if there was given i was at the point when i am changing cables.

I know the Mic doesnt change position, i guess the only thing that does change in the room is ME! I guess i can never be in the exact same position in space and time, which could factor it in the change.
 

mkii

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Doing a simple static measurements like this will not show any difference in cable measurement nor influence on the propagation signal. Take real time measurement on amp and speaker side and observe the difference with real musical signal, not some simple sound generator. To do it in a proper way tou need to invest many dozen k of some currency and then you are in business but also in possibility to state with confidence and proof if something has a difference or not. Until then, playing with toys stays on that level of confidence as it is right now.
 

sigbergaudio

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To remove the most obvious problems, measure just one speaker, and place the mic like 10cm from the tweeter. There's no way there's anywhere near this difference between the cables.
 

mkii

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Doing a simple static measurements like this will not show any difference in cable measurement nor influence on the propagation signal. Take real time measurement on amp and speaker side and observe the difference with real musical signal, not some simple sound generator. To do it in a proper way tou need to invest many dozen k of some currency and then you are in business but also in possibility to state with confidence and proofif something has a difference or not. Until then, playing with toys stays on that level of confidence as it is right now.
To remove the most obvious problems, measure just one speaker, and place the mic like 10cm from the tweeter. There's no way there's anywhere near this difference between the cables.
To include speakers into measurement one need to have speakers able to reveal the difference. For this the while setup has to be on a certain level. Not all systems will show differences in sound, partuculary the cheaper one and in most cases everyone tries to improve or change the sound of cheap equipment with the cables which is pure nonsense.. on the better equipment sound difference exists and is measurable, who doesn't try has no right to state false observations.
 

fpitas

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No mic stayed in the exact same place.

The banana plugs were changed not long ago but the Kimber ones are brand new, they could be a possible reason for sure but why would it only change between 120-170 as I say from 170 hertz to 20khz it’s identical not even a .db difference after 170hz
Your problem, right there.
 

sigbergaudio

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To include speakers into measurement one need to have speakers able to reveal the difference. For this the while setup has to be on a certain level. Not all systems will show differences in sound, partuculary the cheaper one and in most cases everyone tries to improve or change the sound of cheap equipment with the cables which is pure nonsense.. on the better equipment sound difference exists and is measurable, who doesn't try has no right to state false observations.

Measurable perhaps. Audible? Not so much. Differences like we see here (several dB)? Nope.
 

fpitas

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Trying to measure cable differences with a microphone is just wheel spinning.
Agreed. A Kelvin differential pickup right at the speaker terminals is more appropriate.
 

egellings

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Oxydation ?
Quality of contact in general?
If I understand correctly, the cables were measured in an audio playback system. Wouldn't it have been better to just measure the cables by themselves, electrically? That way, a lot of possible confounding factors associated with the system and room are removed from the measurements.
 

Ricardus

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If I understand correctly, the cables were measured in an audio playback system. Wouldn't it have been better to just measure the cables by themselves, electrically? That way, a lot of possible confounding factors associated with the system and room are removed from the measurements.
BOOM.
 

fpitas

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