I did measure a difference between my new Kimber 12TC and AudioQuest 14/4

[DannyBukem]

Hi folks,
I wanted to get peoples views on this. Like many on here, I am super sceptical about speaker cables making a discernible difference to my system but I wanted to share this to see what people thought. I have been using Audioquest 14/4 for about 9 years, connecting musical fidelity power amp to monitor audio Gold 200. I use it in bi-Amp, so utilising all 4 wires.
I recently acquired some Kimber 12TC, I know gene at Audioholics raves about how they measure. Having got REW and Umik-1 recently I thought I would see if there was a measurable difference between the cables and I was surprised to see there was a difference. I used completely the same settings ‘Pure direct’ in my yammy 3080 and same volume level. The really odd thing is that the only difference was between 120-170 hz. After 170hz they are absolutely identical. See the graph above… the red line is Kimber, the blue is Audioquest. Weirdly you could argue AQ measure better than Kimber but thought the Kimber sounded slightly louder. Interestingly the Kimber seemed to have about an 8db difference in the room mode I seem to have from 160 hz.

For background, I took 5 readings of each cable then averaged them, both the average and every test showed identical results so it’s definitely not just the way I tested it. There is a difference….. anyone know maybe why?

 

[boXem]

Oxydation ?
Quality of contact in general?

 

[voodooless]

There is a difference….. anyone know maybe why?

Did you move the mic?

 

[DannyBukem]

No mic stayed in the exact same place.

The banana plugs were changed not long ago but the Kimber ones are brand new, they could be a possible reason for sure but why would it only change between 120-170 as I say from 170 hertz to 20khz it’s identical not even a .db difference after 170hz

 

[poxymoron]

Did you move the mic?

I'm not sure even the most ardent subjectivist would have imagined such a big difference.

 

[Sokel]

What's really odd is that the difference is not consistent down there,it swings at the opposite at 135Hz or so.
Strange...

 

[DannyBukem]

The only big difference physically is far more copper as I’ve bi amped the Kimber with 2 x runs of 12TC to each speaker so there will be an AWG difference for sure but I read on short runs (mine are only 1.5m) awg shouldn’t make that much difference.

 

[DannyBukem]

Audioquest were 2m. Kimber 1.5m

 

[Sokel]

Audioquest were 2m. Kimber 1.5m

I saw you already answered this so I deleted it,but it's good to know.

 

[DannyBukem]

That’s exactly what I did. 5 sweeps of each. You can choose sweep 2 of AQ and sweep 4 of Kimber, the graphs are identical.

 

[DannyBukem]

Happy to share the REW files

 

[abdo123]

use 4M long sweeps. and remove smoothing.

 

[Sokel]

Real world measurements are my favorites,BUT:
Despite the 5 samples of each,will they be repeatable tomorrow for example (controlled as tight as you can)?
Cause that will be be a very stronger indicator that there is a difference after all.
I mean nothing bad by the above,just to make sure.

 

[Sokel]

use 4M long sweeps. and remove smoothing.

We can remove it ourselves if he share the files.

Edit:
It would be nice if acoustic time reference has been used too.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

This is very interesting. Have you reversed the process, i.e. run the tests with the new Kimber cable, then plugged the old Audioquest cable back in and run the tests?

 

[Blumlein 88]

The low frequencies make me wonder about noise from outside your room. In one band they add to room modes and in another partly cancel them out. Run at a different time of day.

Maybe do a measure at a higher level. Say 10 db higher, assuming that doesn't stress your gear. This would reduce the influence of noise and result in a reduced difference if external noise is the cause of this.

Another check would be to measure the speaker terminals with an ADC (you'll need to step down the voltage) which I would expect to be pretty much identical with either cable.

 

[antcollinet]

Even if we discount connetion problems:

Are *you* in the room together with the mic? Are you in exactly the same position for the two tests? All furniture, doors etc exactly the same. Any fans running? Temperature the same? No radiators or other heating devices changed state between the tests causing air movement or density changes? Air movement hasn't "settled" between tests? Any other devices in the room (Or outside it) that may be emitting frequencies in that range?

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Problem with audio measurements in the "sound through air" domain, especially when not in an anechoic chamber, is they can be impacted by a hell of a lot of things.

What if you repeat the test, but measure the signals on the speaker terminals instead. You might need to up the game on test gear for this though, but to be honest it is the only way to conclusively check for differences between cables.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Where were you during the sweeps?
Did any door / window open?

Can you compare a „simple“ copper loudspeaker cable?

 

[Sokel]

Even if we discount connetion problems:

Are *you* in the room together with the mic? Are you in exactly the same position for the two tests? All furniture, doors etc exactly the same. Any fans running? Temperature the same? No radiators or other heating devices changed state between the tests causing air movement or density changes? Air movement hasn't "settled" between tests? Any other devices in the room (Or outside it) that may be emitting frequencies in that range?

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Problem with audio measurements in the "sound through air" domain, especially when not in an anechoic chamber, is they can be impacted by a hell of a lot of things.

What if you repeat the test, but measure the signals on the speaker terminals instead. You might need to up the game on test gear for this though, but to be honest is is the only way to conclusively check for differences between cables.

I thought of exactly the same things but we're talking 5db here,I have never made a measurement that presents such a difference down there at 100-200Hz despite where I sit,what I do,time of day,temp,etc.
I would have to significantly move the speakers or the mic more than 20-30cm to get that (that's why I asked for timing reference)

 

[Blumlein 88]

Another check would be to use pink noise and the moving microphone method.