There is a low latency mode and the 8C doesn’t add that much latency even in full fat.
Keith
Keith
The one thing I would never allow as part of a high quality music system is a general-purpose computer of any description. They are simply not built for audio and offer little protection from RFI, etc.Unrealistic to expect one device any device ( streamer/loudspeaker) to include every possible playback option.
Much simpler to connect a laptop.
Keith
Exactly what are you talking about?The one thing I would never allow as part of a high quality music system is a general-purpose computer of any description. They are simply not built for audio and offer little protection from RFI, etc.
Granted most modern electronics include aspects from the computer world, but they will / should be built with solely audio in mind with all that that entails.
The one thing I would never allow as part of a high quality music system is a general-purpose computer of any description. They are simply not built for audio and offer little protection from RFI, etc.
Granted most modern electronics include aspects from the computer world, but they will / should be built with solely audio in mind with all that that entails.
Compute are OK as control devices that may host a control app, but the signal should never be let loose within a computer.
Personal opinion borne out by personal experience, but others may reach alternative conclusions.
I wonder if those in recording studios or musicians who use them every day know this...The one thing I would never allow as part of a high quality music system is a general-purpose computer of any description. They are simply not built for audio and offer little protection from RFI, etc.
The thing about Fora such as this is the lack of visual clues...The one thing I would never allow as part of a high quality music system is a general-purpose computer of any description. They are simply not built for audio and offer little protection from RFI, etc.
Granted most modern electronics include aspects from the computer world, but they will / should be built with solely audio in mind with all that that entails.
Compute are OK as control devices that may host a control app, but the signal should never be let loose within a computer.
Personal opinion borne out by personal experience, but others may reach alternative conclusions.
Side note: I looked up both recently, and the correct verb to use in this context would in fact be "disabuse". Yes, my brain was protesting in anger, too. There's use, there's abuse, and then there's disabuse - what an abomination.would disavow anyone of this tosh.
Surprisingly little actually, especially considering the shape and features of the room. The owner shared that he actually removed most room treatments when he installed the 8c because they were no longer needed.Didn’t the studio where you auditioned the speakers have any room treatment?
I haven't done that test yet, but I've done this one a bunch of times (I think the tiers it uses are 128, 320 and 16/44.1). The difference between 128 and lossless is pretty evident imo, even on a moderately resolving system (my B&W headphones plugged into a laptop). There was, however, no audible difference over the laptop speakers, as expected.For most people, under blind conditions and with level matched: AAC, Ogg-Vorbis (used by Spotify) , mp3 at, and above 256 kb/s, are undistinguishable from lossless, for 99.9999999999% (made up number) of the human population... You could be part of the 0.0000000001%, that can hear differences.
I feel like there is a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding around this. Some folks read "PC" and picture a 30-year old Pentium tower with loud fans and a noisy switching mode PS. Personally I have no qualms with a modern fanless ITX-based PC streaming bit-perfect to USB. Add a linear PS and you're golden IMO, especially if the PC is further isolated by a DDC.The one thing I would never allow as part of a high quality music system is a general-purpose computer of any description. They are simply not built for audio
Hi all, first post here.
I auditioned a pair of 8c Studios, in a studio where they were set up nearfield. I was surprised at how well they worked at such short distance, even if personally I would prefer them at 10-12 ft pumping out higher SPLs. In any event, let me get this out of the way: They sounded amazing. They are definitely one of the best speakers I have ever listened to.
I did some research prior to the audition, forming the impression that Dutch & Dutch intends the 8c to be an all-you-need system that, ideally at least, would only require AC and RJ-45 cables to work, and, perhaps more importantly, would effortlessly erase most rooms' quirks and imperfections. No more racks laden with components, boxes, interconnects, speaker cables, audiophile accoutrements, room treatments and such.
I liked that. The promise of just two handsome boxes gracing a listening room, effortlessly sweeping away said room's acoustical defects, is extremely attractive.
The 8cs' room correction software clearly meets its goal. It tames rooms so awkward no one would have ever considered them fit for critical listening.
That's all good! Now to the puzzling stuff and various head-scratchers.
You're highlighting one of the 8c's standout features: it's an audio system that continually evolves through ongoing software development. Even the first 8c units, which initially had a basic feature set, now offer the same advanced capabilities as those purchased today. While some might see this constant evolution as a potential risk, we view it as one of the 8c's greatest strengths, ensuring the system remains cutting-edge and improves over time. Dutch & Dutch now has nearly seven years of proven track record in developing and refining the platform known as Ascend.When you buy software, you also marry its developers, in a manner of speaking. You espouse their vision. Unlike Wilson Audio speakers or whatever, your 8cs will evolve over time. Five years from now, they will no longer be the 8cs you can buy today. You are trusting the developers to evolve the product in a direction that you agree with, and you look forward to your product getting better over time.
When this kind of business model works, it's great; but it adds a not insubstantial amount of risk and uncertainty to an otherwise straightforward transaction. Many things can happen; a visionary founder may be replaced by a committee; a private equity firm might cash the founders out then set out to optimize returns; etc. That said, it isn't just new owners who can turn your remotely upgradeable product into something other than the product you loved and went for in the first place.
I share your amazement! The announcement of their lossless plan is what initially prompted us to prioritize Spotify over other streaming services.Now please, seriously, look at Spotify - 128 to 320kbps, no lossless plan although that's been promised for like seven years - what exactly is Spotify doing here?
Still, there is no getting around the fact that 8c effortlessly blows most audiophile high-end gear out of the water; so, am I overthinking all this?
Should I just go for it, enjoy my own 8cs and hope for the best?
As others said, you're not forced to use the streaming part of the speakers. I would not worry too much that a future update will suddenly remove functionality, but if the company stops releasing updates some streaming services might stop working (well) at some point. Of course you should always be able to use the other inputs.
On a related note, IMO D&D made a strategic mistake by fully developing their streaming software in-house, instead of relying on an established systems integrator as essentially every other brand does. This kind of in-house software entails a considerable effort but they ended up with a very limited feature set compared to competitors.. They have recently added Spotify connect but there is no google cast, no airplay, no amazon music, no apple music, no HDMI inputs, no earc, etc. There are many speakers on the market at or below 1/5th of the price of the 8C that do offer there features.
If you buy a 13k speaker which is advertised as replacing a whole system, this is surely a little bit disapointing. And there is a real of question of how well they will keep up with keeping those integrations updated - this is a big effort to be paid for by a single line of speakers.
I had all intel needed to finally close the chapter and summarize this story, yet the decision was made to test drive my LampizatOr Pacific. This changed a lot. Since my reference source and iFi audio’s Pro iCAN are what they are, it was perfectly reasonable to assume that the 8c fronted by this twosome loaded with valves will net denser, cozier and in general more euphonic and sweeter outcome. Presumably with a drawback or two here and there but overall at least mildly better nonetheless. Martijn informed me that the 8c benefits very little from even posh additions. But surprisingly, his product all alone performed substantially better and the difference was as undeniable as it was shocking. Neither of us saw it coming. My source and preamp on duty trimmed bass reach and extensively desaturated sound to morph it into something less lively, more metallic and audibly worse on most fronts.
No, currently Roon or Spotify are the only options for direct streaming. Martijn mentioned above that "others are in development" without being specific about which services (one could imagine Tidal, Qobuz etc).Thanks all for your thoughtful responses. One takeaway is that my original post lacked focus and clarity, which it most certainly did.
My first and foremost question with the 8c is: Given that I will *not* use either Roon or Spotify, can I stream to 8c over RJ-45, and if so how does that work?
I get that you can connect old-school via AES and XLR, except that boxes will be needed and boxes are contrary to the 8c's all-in-one concept / promise.
Using a DAC would be a mistake IMO as it injects an unnecessary D>A>D conversion cycle. The reviewer I linked in my OP tried it though:
So the $27,000 DAC trashed the sound quality.
Probably best to stick with the intended usage model then, aka Music over IP
But can you do that without Spotify or Roon?
Normally I'd suggest that a DAC "trashing the sound quality" is absurd, but between the outrageous pricing and the "tube amp" looks of it, it's possible that uber-expensive DAC does make what comes out of it worse than what went in. However, using an actual good, transparent DAC that isn't audiophile jewelry will be no issue at all. Hell, feed with a WiiM Ultra and you'll be quite good.So the $27,000 DAC trashed the sound quality.
I don't think that's the "intended" usage model. It's merely an option.Probably best to stick with the intended usage model then, aka Music over IP
Not currently, possibly in the future. For now, like I said, stick something else in front like a Wiim Ultra and enjoy your system if you're able to afford those D&Ds.But can you do that without Spotify or Roon?
Martijn, it's funny you said that because my original post said that Dutch & Dutch seemed to be going after the "wealthier end of the Sonos customer base".Internally, we've referred to our vision as "high-end Sonos"
I suspect he meant on the D&D websiteShort on Data?
Erin’s Audio Corner full Klippel measurement suite of the 8C
There is also a Stereophile review albeit with slightly less sophisticated measurement.
Keith