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I am told my amps wont sound their best on these 98db speakers because they are 250wpc

Phorize

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Yes because I dont see them getting cheap, not even in 15 years!

Apologies just realised your post could have meant 3 things-answer above is relevant to 1 interpretation. The other 2 possibilities I respond to as follows:
Yes, Benchmark are unlikely to sell cheap amplifiers.
Yes, the used value of the benchmark amps are likely to hold well in the future, so may never be bargain territory.

This is when you tell me I’m wrong on 3 counts and there is in fact a 4th interpretation that I’ve missed. :facepalm:
 

Phorize

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I wonder if the Purifi can run with the input buffer bypassed on a pair of 94dB speakers.....

Now there’s a thought. Runs off to consult the specs and measurements...
 

Frank Dernie

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So I am looking at a change of speakers and I emailed the designer with my room size and amplification but he has recommended a cheaper smaller model, it appears his decision is based somewhat on the grounds that super sensitive speakers work best with low wattage valve amps not hi power amps. I did call the designer of my amps and he was a bit perplexed but said he could understand the thought process but did not elaborate. So what is the science behind this? The other thing I dont understand is he says the smaller one will produce more bass in a smaller room, but its the same design all be it with a 10" instead of 12" driver. Dont get me wrong this guy has earned his stars so i dont want to brush this off, I just want to understand. Here is the explanation on the bass section of the speakers Im looking at. I am particularly intrigued by the claim that this design can have the best bass in a big room and because a small room has less floor space it will not produce so much bass and therefore still produce "strong" articulate bass. They sound like my dream speakers.....


Bass Horns


The Bastanis line of passive powered speakers uses backloaded floor- firing bass-horn cabinets. This sounds complicated but there is an easy explanation which shows the big advantages of backloaded bass-horns for passive powered speakers.



  • The horn transforms the air- movement from the drivers cones to a much bigger surface at the horn-mouth. This increases the possible max. dynamics enormously because for the same spl as without the horn there is a small percentage of cone- movement only.
  • This also means that the amount of physical damping of the drivers resonance by the load of air is much bigger and so the required electrical damping is extremely low which is very good for the soundquality of tubed amps.
  • The increased physical resistance of the basses coming from bass-horn cabinets is the only way to give high efficient passive powered speakers strong bass- response with the same efficiency as the midrange, any conventional sealed or bass-reflex cabinets could offer the basses with much lower efficiency only.
  • The floor firing bass-horns are a big step up from the usual giant bass-horns because they work as well offering efficient, fundamental and dynamic basses from cabinets with common dimensions.
  • The floor firing bass-horns react self- adjusting to the room and the placement, big rooms mean big floor- space, big virtual opening of the horn-mouth and so maximum contribution of the basses. Smaller room- spaces and close to wall- placement means smaller floor- space, smaller virtual horn-mouth and less contribution of the basses, so the bass- response stays strong and clean.


The Bastanis floor- firing bass-horn speakers are the most excellent way to get the unlimited basses you always were looking for combined with high efficiency, compact sized cabinets and self- adjusting characteristics.
I have 109dB/watt horns.
I have used a low power valve amp with no problem but am currently using a Job INTegrated which iirc is rated at 175 watts into 8 ohms. It works perfectly and there is only the very faintest hiss if I put my ear inside the horn.
I am listening near the low end of the volume control, but the Job has a very fine multi turn volume control so the increments are fine.
The only problems I can imagine with a high power amp are:
1. If it is noisy you will hear hiss - this has not been a problem for me with cheap Chinese valve amp, the Job or my Devialet but obviously some amps are noisier than these.
2. Irritatingly low volume control setting and/or big changes in volume with small movement of control, this will be amp dependant and you would have to try it, again not a problem with the 3 amps I have tried and the valve amp is a classic design with standard potentiometer volume control.
3. Perhaps a risk of damage to speakers or ears if somebody turns up the volume high.
 
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ABall

ABall

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I have 109dB/watt horns.
I have used a low power valve amp with no problem but am currently using a Job INTegrated which iirc is rated at 175 watts into 8 ohms. It works perfectly and there is only the very faintest hiss if I put my ear inside the horn.
I am listening near the low end of the volume control, but the Job has a very fine multi turn volume control so the increments are fine.
The only problems I can imagine with a high power amp are:
1. If it is noisy you will hear hiss - this has not been a problem for me with cheap Chinese valve amp, the Job or my Devialet but obviously some amps are noisier than these.
2. Irritatingly low volume control setting and/or big changes in volume with small movement of control, this will be amp dependant and you would have to try it, again not a problem with the 3 amps I have tried and the valve amp is a classic design with standard potentiometer volume control.
3. Perhaps a risk of damage to speakers or ears if somebody turns up the volume high.
Ah your post reminds me my LDR does not go low enough for us to have a conversation at the same time as having some background music on, that was on my Hawthorn Audio Duets but they were quoted as 97.3db, I would be a bit lower if i go for the Kurt's at 94 so maybe it will be ok.
 
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ABall

ABall

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Apologies just realised your post could have meant 3 things-answer above is relevant to 1 interpretation. The other 2 possibilities I respond to as follows:
Yes, Benchmark are unlikely to sell cheap amplifiers.
Yes, the used value of the benchmark amps are likely to hold well in the future, so may never be bargain territory.

This is when you tell me I’m wrong on 3 counts and there is in fact a 4th interpretation that I’ve missed. :facepalm:
Sorry yes your second statement, and if the company stops trading/making amplifiers then you will find the price will probably go up if you look at trends from the past. SME V tone arms, cost me £1500 in the 90s new, theres one on ebay for 8k! I hope that robbin chancer doesnt sell it, not that I'm against making a profit on classic gear, I just wish I had kept mine. :mad:
 

rdenney

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Or Rick could buy a purifi or hypex amplifier now and experience SOTA performance far sooner;)

Thanks, but I’m good. :)

Rick “these B&K amps have warmth, stage depth, and just a touch of MOSFET haze—NOT” Denney
 
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ABall

ABall

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So I bit the bullet and ordered a pair of ready built Kurt's, they are on there way from the Netherlands now, most money I have every spent on speakers, well most money I have ever spent on hifi but I know speakers make biggest difference in sound so hopefully this will be the last type I buy, after this it will have to be room correction, hoping not to need that...
 

peanuts

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sorry to be the bearer of bad news but stay far away from bastanis. i had his "rothorn" or whatever it was called at home, they were absolutely awful. full of beaming and distortion. this is what happens when you design a large speaker without any crossover or components whatsoever.

they are not horn speakers either:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/274358-bastanis-horns-2.html#post4327956

i can recommend these though, they are designed using science
https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-...e-theater-series/home-theater/htm-12-kit.html
 
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ABall

ABall

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sorry to be the bearer of bad news but stay far away from bastanis. i had his "rothorn" or whatever it was called at home, they were absolutely awful. full of beaming and distortion. this is what happens when you design a large speaker without any crossover or components whatsoever.

they are not horn speakers either:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/274358-bastanis-horns-2.html#post4327956

i can recommend these though, they are designed using science
https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-...e-theater-series/home-theater/htm-12-kit.html
Thanks for the links, shame you didnt post that earlier! I will see what they are like, he has a few different designs and this one has had good things said by a member on another forum.

Well that thread is over 5 years old and if they dont work in my lounge they will go on ebay, i got a good deal on them and they are pre built to there highest spec so shouldnt be too hard to move on.
 
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peanuts

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thats good. i also had the hawthorne 15" PSI. couldnt live with the tweeter either.
probably the club27`s will be better than thoes, the rothorn were atleast... but could not compete with an econowave or linkwitz lxmini.
the hawthorne and bastanis were two speakers that really made me appreciate measurements. from that point i will not buy or build anything without measurements :)
 
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ABall

ABall

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thats good. i also had the hawthorne 15" PSI. couldnt live with the tweeter either.
probably the club27`s will be better than thoes, the rothorn were atleast... but could not compete with an econowave or linkwitz lxmini.
the hawthorne and bastanis were two speakers that really made me appreciate measurements. from that point i will not buy or build anything without measurements :)
God I hope the tweeter is better, :D To be honest I dont think my perfect speaker exists for my current living room, I am still bound by previous subjective findings when listening to speakers with no xovers, I will find out soon enough anyway and I will report back

That LXMini does look very interesting...
 
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egellings

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With speakers that efficient, any hiss or hum in the electronics will be quite annoyingly noticeable.
 
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ABall

ABall

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One and a half years later.... are you happy with these speakers?
Wow has it been that long, well I've been thinking about selling 2 sets of my floorstanders to buy small surrounds but not my Kurt's so I guess that answers that. I've swapped my Tannoys and IPLs to the front, both offer lower bass especially the IPLs but I just dont get on with ports and TL's, I could live with the TL's if I hadn't purchased the Kurt's. Yes the Kurts have a massive port but the bass seems more like a sealed baffle. That brings me to today, Ive purchased everything to build @Wolf 's 10 inch Overdrive, i've cut the panels and its all ready to glue, im hoping this will blend into the Kurt's to make MY perfect speaker. I have sold my amps and DAC and now just run a Denon 3700, at the moment the Kurt's are running with DSP/added bass when in stereo, its not ideal but its not terrible, I just need a kick up the arse to finish the sub.
 

xaxxon

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Get the speakers and try your amps. If you're not happy then buy something else.

No need to get ahead of yourself.
 
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