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I am looking for a sound card for audiology and medical use

kulak

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Audiometry is the name given to the hearing test that provides measurement of hearing and evaluation of hearing functions. Includes hearing-related tests and measurements

We are looking for a sound card with at least 7 channels that can be controlled independently on each output for use in clinical audiometry.
Our requirements:
125-20kHz frequency and dynamic range at least 130 dB
We used the behringer UMC1820 before, it was 10-15dB behind in the measurements we made and could not give the value we wanted.
1) Is there a card you can recommend us?
2) Can the card you recommend be used in the medical field (standards, requirements, etc.)?
 

Tks

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Idk much about ADC's, but I feel like a total clown if the UMC1820 is a "sound card" and not simply an audio interface that you may rackmount.

To me, a modern soundcard is something that slots into a PCI-e slot on the motherboard of your computer. So at this point I'm not sure what precisely it is you're referring to.

Since this is being used in the medical field, I would have thought you guys have some hardware you all use as standard from one or two manufacturers that most consumers never get to see or hear about.

I would recommend you reach out (or check out their offerings online) to companies like Audient (a rep has an account here if I recall), Motu, and especially RME (the head of the company has a presence here, and I'm also sure they may have a product for you that will satisfy your performance requirement). MC_RME is the account you may want to private message.

I didn't do any preliminary checking of my own, but a 130dB of DR is going to be a tall order for many high channel devices I'd imagine. The only one off the top of my head that I can think of, is the Universal Audio Apollo x16 which advertises 133dB of dynamic range (though I doubt this figure intuitively).
 

DVDdoug

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2) Can the card you recommend be used in the medical field (standards, requirements, etc.)?
You or someone in your office should know more about that than most of us here. If you are in the U.S. I assume it has to be FDA approved for its intended medical purpose?
...You can't just buy regular headphones from an audio/video store or on Amazon, right?

125-20kHz frequency and dynamic range at least 130 dB
There is more than one way to measure dynamic range or signal-to-noise. Of course the manufacturers tend to use a method that gives the "best number" and sometimes they "fudge". And performance will vary from unit-to-unit. And again I'm assuming that your equipment has to be periodically calibrated & certified by an independent lab.
 
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Elitzur–Vaidman

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The Topping DM7 seems the most likely to meet your requirements. 8 channels of 126.5dB dynamic range: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-dm7-8-channel-dac-review.35661/

It's a usb2.0 device, so not exactly a sound card (plus its balanced output only), but I don't think there's a single ended sound card that would meet your requirements.
Just to update: It looks like the DM7's effective dynamic range exceeds 130dB if your frequency range is only 125-20kHz (eyeball estimation from @amirm's multitone test)
1660145426787.png
 
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kulak

kulak

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Just to update: It looks like the DM7's effective dynamic range exceeds 130dB if your frequency range is only 125-20kHz (eyeball estimation from @amirm's multitone test) View attachment 223504

Yes, as a result of our research on the site, we found this card, it looks really good. The only question is can we use this card in medical field.
 
OP
kulak

kulak

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You or someone in your office should know more about that than most of us here. If you are in the U.S. I assume
...You can't just buy regular headphones from an audio/video store or on Amazon, right?


There is more than one way to measure dynamic range or signal-to-noise. Of course the manufacturers tend to use a method that gives the "best number" and sometimes they "fudge". And performance will vary from unit-to-unit. And again I'm assuming
We know it needs to be certified, but we're currently searching for a special card with these certificates for sale for the medical field, but we haven't found anything.
 
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kulak

kulak

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Idk much about ADC's, but I feel like a total clown if the UMC1820 is a "sound card" and not simply an audio interface that you may rackmount.

To me, a modern soundcard is something that slots into a PCI-e slot on the motherboard of your computer. So at this point I'm not sure what precisely it is you're referring to.

Since this is being used in the medical field, I would have thought you guys have some hardware you all use as standard from one or two manufacturers that most consumers never get to see or hear about.

I would recommend you reach out (or check out their offerings online) to companies like Audient (a rep has an account here if I recall), Motu, and especially RME (the head of the company has a presence here, and I'm also sure they may have a product for you that will satisfy your performance requirement). MC_RME is the account you may want to private message.

I didn't do any preliminary checking of my own, but a 130dB of DR is going to be a tall order for many high channel devices I'd imagine. The only one off the top of my head that I can think of, is the Universal Audio Apollo x16 which advertises 133dB of dynamic range (though I doubt this figure intuitively).
DM7 seems suitable but I'm not sure if it can be used in the medical field
 

Blumlein 88

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This one would also work for you. Cost is about double. Have no idea about medical certification. What is involved in getting that? Also this one is output only do you need input capability?
 

charleski

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DM7 seems suitable but I'm not sure if it can be used in the medical field
I'm pretty sure this is 510(K) exempt and doesn't need any special certification.
The listing for Audiometry devices is here: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=874.1050
Note that these are Class II only because they need to comply with ANSI standards regarding audiometer capabilities. I'm pretty sure the measured functionality far exceeds that specified in the ANSI standard.
 

Piere

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Medical certification involves extensive risk management/evaluation. In particular regarding electrical safety. No commercial sound card will fulfill that requirement of the shelf. So you need to do that risk management/evaluation yourself for a particular suitable card. I.e. I guess you will hook that card to a PC/Mac? Is that PC/Mac Medical certified too electrical? You will find the electrical requirements in the EN-IEC standard 60601. I am not in the medical business any more for the last 8 years so I don't know what the current actual standards are. But if you Google for EN-IEC 60601 or Medical electrical equipment - General requirements for basic safety and essential performance - you will find your way.
 
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kulak

kulak

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Medical certification involves extensive risk management/evaluation. In particular regarding electrical safety. No commercial sound card will fulfill that requirement of the shelf. So you need to do that risk management/evaluation yourself for a particular suitable card. I.e. I guess you will hook that card to a PC/Mac? Is that PC/Mac Medical certified too electrical? You will find the electrical requirements in the EN-IEC standard 60601. I am not in the medical business any more for the last 8 years so I don't know what the current actual standards are. But if you Google for EN-IEC 60601 or Medical electrical equipment - General requirements for basic safety and essential performance - you will find your way.
We will already have EMC LVD tests done. While doing these tests, including the sound card in the tests will solve the problem, so right?
The computer we use will be a medical computer
 

tonycollinet

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Audiometry is the name given to the hearing test that provides measurement of hearing and evaluation of hearing functions. Includes hearing-related tests and measurements

We are looking for a sound card with at least 7 channels that can be controlled independently on each output for use in clinical audiometry.
Our requirements:
125-20kHz frequency and dynamic range at least 130 dB
We used the behringer UMC1820 before, it was 10-15dB behind in the measurements we made and could not give the value we wanted.
1) Is there a card you can recommend us?
2) Can the card you recommend be used in the medical field (standards, requirements, etc.)?
You are very unlikely to find a consumer grade sound ouput device (audio interface/soundcard/dac) that has medical certificaitons (if they are necessary)

And unless you can find a medical expert audiologist on this site, you are unlikely to get anyone who knows what those medical certifications are.

I think you need to be asking in a more medical specialised forum.
 

Piere

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You also need to do at least a leakage test. But the certification involves an extensive investigation of all the risks and how that rsika are handled to comply with the applicable standards. All written down in a report. That not only involves electrical properties, EMC/EMI but also materials used.
 
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