• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

I am a convert. Goodbye snake oil!

OK - I'm gonna back away slowly. Clearly we are not going to have a meeting of minds in this instance. :p
I think the point is, a person can be biased toward or away from hearing differences, whether the difference exists or not. I think the default mode for most people is to be biased toward, but not all people. I think it could be possible to measure this bias independently of whether there is an underlying difference...
 
If a subjective assessment is confirmed repeatable in a statistically significant round of double blind testing, it becomes objective evidence to me.

Double blind testing and objective measurements are kryptonite to a lot of “audiophile” beliefs. Double blind testing can become real “the emperor has no clothes” experiences. The other side of the coin is that measurements can become a form of servitude where you measure “good/better/best” in a realm that isn’t audible in normal listening. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it still make a noise? Similarly, if amp D measures better than amp A, but you can’t hear a difference, is it still better? I guess yes, but who cares at that point?
 
I was a ferocious believer in cables and accessories
Gracious! I'm a ferocious believer in a few things but none of them are consumer goods :>

Anyway, welcome. In not sure what more we can do for you here except maybe offer the jokes thread.

I recall a post here a few years ago in which a member posted photos, specs and prices for all the daft cables and stuff he's sold off since his apostasy. Amazing! I hesitate cuz I don't want to get it wrong but was it vintage flanker? I think it's quite brave to own up like that. I'd be embarrassed.
 
Last edited:
I think the point is, a person can be biased toward or away from hearing differences, whether the difference exists or not. I think the default mode for most people is to be biased toward, but not all people. I think it could be possible to measure this bias independently of whether there is an underlying difference...
The trouble is that the “it doesn’t make a difference” mantra can be extrapolated as easily as the “everything makes a difference” mantra. I can imagine that especially in these instances where one transitions from one to the other, one has to be careful about this.
 
A counter argument to that is - if you are purchasing new gear, you don't know if you will expereience ground issues with that gear. Personally I try to make sure balanced interconnect is an option - just in case. This is (would be if I purchased any) particularly be the case with active speakers - where line level interconnect to them needs to be much longer than typical device to device connections.
Sounds like a sensible approach.:)

I have, via long shoelace-like cheapest RCA cables, like this:
shopping-1.webp
picked up noise when I plugged in compression drivers via an active crossover. Cables plugged in everywhere here and there, wacko gain settings on the crossover and so on. The result was clear noise plus hissing. It was hardly unexpected. But no problem, just redo and do it right and it turned out fine.:)
 
Meanwhile on Steve Huff's Hifi youtube channel, this was a person's response to a youngling getting into the hobby....

You're not in the hobby. You just bought an appliance and use it. Most people can't tell the difference between $20 bottle of wine and $100 bottle of wine. The same with cigars. If you can't hear that cables sound different you're really into appliance buying category and your comments have no real value in a perspective of the hobby. You still may have a great taste in music and enjoy it immensely. It's just your input regarding hobby is worthless.
If that's the hobby then I think obnoxious snob gatekeeping like this is just the ticket. Such obnoxious snob gatekeeping will help that hobby to die out while the rest of us enjoy good sound and the science and engineering that goes into making it.
 
I had digital speakers the last 20 years so most of analog and speaker cables were surplus. These where bought prior to me getting out of the cult .

An embarrassing lot of expensive audioquest etc ( hereafter known as fraudioquest ) when I moved I’ve found them again what to do ? I dumped it all in the cable recycling bin :) so the copper could be reused .
I could probably made some $$$ but I’d did not have the heart to continue the fraud second hand .
 
The folks who get the holographic experience, positioned their speakers and their seating in the appropriate manner relating to each other. Those who didn't 'get it', have no idea how to position their speakers in relation to the seating. Or conversely, how to position their seating to take advantage of their room limitations for speaker placement.
Doesn’t that relate a bit more to stereo image? Either way, I meant holographic in a more nebulous way, where it is ascribed to all parts of the chain that objectively could not influence our perception of so called holography.
 
There are several cable types through construction that absolutely sound different.

One that most turntable/record people (should) know about. Cart to phono preamp cabling has to be built a certain way. Low capacitance (less than 25 pf per foot), proper shielding (not any shielding, proper shielding), and hopefully an independent ground wire. I never go over 3 feet; others can do what they want. I also use tight-fitting locking RCAs. I have always used copper, silver or copper/silver clad terminal ends that are cleaned and treated with corrosive inhibitors and contact enhancers. Some people like using Rhodium, but for the sake of wear and how hard Rhodium is, I don't. In other words, I try to build a good cable or buy a good cable with the best possible results. I try to stay out of trouble, NOT get out of trouble. (That was for the clothes-hanger crowd). I also like good-looking armored cabling, and I do use cable risers because it's a lot easier to clean. I use simple M/W wooden blocks, primed and painted with high gloss paint for easy cleaning.

I have used Rhodium on several occasions, just not in an audio application unless the equipment was working around salt water or brackish water. It's great for high-corrosion applications, Marine or barge work, and equipment working off a barge in brackish, salt, or even worse, a hazardous environment, such as cleanups or disposal sites. I've seen complete 359/379 Peterbilt tractors disintegrate in 1-3 years while working around corrosive ponds or general corrosive environments.

SR and MIT cables both have ways to change the way a cable sounds. If you purchase/use cables with passive preamps inline on their speaker cables, like MIT or SR uses tuning bullets you can change. There is a difference because you are adding or removing resistance, capacitance, and sometimes inductance.

As a retired HD mechanic, I read, see, and hear "things" all the time from people who just don't know any better. I have found there are more informed people on this site, and by no small measure. I prefer a more gentlemanly approach. Most here are great at welcoming folks.

Thanks, Amir, for the great ADD FREE site. It's better than eatin' bugs!

Like my grandmother used to say, manners don't cost; they always pay. RIP 1889-1988

With great regards to all.
 
Doesn’t that relate a bit more to stereo image? Either way, I meant holographic in a more nebulous way, where it is ascribed to all parts of the chain that objectively could not influence our perception of so called holography.

Well. Yes. I was referring to the stereo imaging. :)
 
“Holographic” may be nebulous, but “stereo imaging” is a very real thing and not something I would put in the “snake oil” category per se, unless something not involving speaker placement and toe-in somehow is said to improve stereo imaging.
 
“Holographic” may be nebulous, but “stereo imaging” is a very real thing and not something I would put in the “snake oil” category per se, unless something not involving speaker placement and toe-in somehow is said to improve stereo imaging.
Nobody ever said stereo imaging is snake oil. The other guy just got confused and referred to stereo imaging but called it holography.
 
The trouble is that the “it doesn’t make a difference” mantra can be extrapolated as easily as the “everything makes a difference” mantra. I can imagine that especially in these instances where one transitions from one to the other, one has to be careful about this.
Yep, there are situations where "shouldn't make a difference", 'usually doesn't make a difference" and "might only make a tiny difference" do not mean "inaudible" nor "you won't appreciate the difference". It's good to keep in mind the subtleties.
 
Another guy who thinks his sh1t doesn't smell is Danny from GR Research.
The guy thinks he is the only good speaker designer in the world! He over estimates the performance of his products. His latest project, speakers that he developed in collaboration with his muppet, Ron from NRD, has a magic Shunyata device in them. He claims it improves the sound quality...

He also claims his Uber something power conditioner dramatically improves sound. I would love to see one of these gizmos measured.
he's 60, so he can't hear for shit anyway. also he's a snake oil peddler for sure.
 
with the doubled voltage the balanced input provides
this is not always so. And a common misunderstanding of "balanced" signals. Balanced refers to the impedance of the two signal lines not the signals(or lack of) that are on the lines.
"ground" is a signal:)
 
Last edited:
There’ve also been some embarrassing results from blind tests with wine connoisseurs too!!
In some tests they couldn't even tell white from red wine - although there are factual and "olfactual" ( :D ) differences in "source material", like just grape pulp or juice vs whole grapes incl. skin. Turns out, as we all already know, beyond basic physical properties and quality levels there's little but presentation and basic psychological salesmanship. Just as in audio.
 
Nobody ever said stereo imaging is snake oil. The other guy just got confused and referred to stereo imaging but called it holography.

No. You can get stereo imaging without feeling the sound is completely wrapping around you with a 2 channel or 2.1 rig.
 
Back
Top Bottom