Hypex or Purifi - What's the difference? and help me choose an Amp

[Goran-P]

Long time lurker, first time poster, newbie to the 'new world' of audiophile listening ... so be gentle!

First of all, I want to give a big THANK YOU to Amir and all the posters on this forum !!! I have learned so much from all of you. One day, I hope to give back.

Mainly based on info here, I just bought an RME AD1-2 DAC FS, DCA NoireX and Focal Radiance cans (try both, sell one), and a Topping LA 90 discrete with Ascend Luna V2 RAAL speakers for my office - for private and nearfield listening while working. With the exception of the Luna's, all were bought used.

I hope you can help me with more 'serious' purchases! I have been studying up, but I really don't know what I'm doing in this new world. (You can skip the rest of the preface, and jump right to the questions, highlighted in crimson below, if you like)

Short History - I've been listening to records (and all the technologies post-vinyl), and music my whole life. I can't live without it! 15 years ago, I started to get serious (-ish) and bought a vinyl/tube system (I wanted old-school 'warmth') with a Musical Hall MMF-7.1 TT (stock cartridge), Jolida JD9-II PS, Mystere A21 IA, Paradigm Signature 1 bookshelves and REL T0 for my small living room. I also got a Woo WA 22 HA, and a pair of Audeze LCD-3 cans. I did some tube rolling. (I set up a full house Russound system as well with ceiling speakers, etc, for digital). And this served me fine. I enjoyed (and am still enjoying) the heck out of it.

Life goes on, we moved, and this system now lives in the medium-sized living room of our main house, along with my record collection. That room also has a TOTL sonos HT set up (w/ 75" TV), and a sonos PORT so I can stream to the HT speakers and/or the Sig 1's. This has WAF, so it's probably not going to change or get updated, other than the WiiM ultra Amp I just got, so I can stream better quality signals to the Sig 1s.

We are lucky, and we have a big barn/library/guest house as well. When not being used by guests, this will now serve as my 'reference-on-a-budget-ish' listening area as well as the party room when we have guests over. I'll talk about speakers, room size and set-up in a different post, but suffice to say it is a big room - 23' x 32' x 23' high. Vaulted wood ceiling, wood floor, wood book shelves and 1000's of books + some big and small windows. I have a Rivo + Streamer + LPS coming, and will need some help on DAC and speakers choices in a different post(s). Based on what I'm learning, it seems that digital, DACs etc, have progressed to the point that digital sounds much more analogue than 15 years ago and I don't really need to fuss with a TT to get great sound (not to mention simplicity of listening to various songs from various artists without leaving my couch). So this room is likely to be digital only.

But this post is about what Amp to get. Like many of you here, I think, I am Mr. Analysis-Paralysis. And I am Mr. Junior-Engineer. Based on all the research I've done ( most of it here - thank you again), I am planning on getting a Class D amp (2-channel, not mono blocks). I will likely put in Ascend ELX towers in here as speakers (and maybe a SW or 2, although I'd prefer not to) ... I'm still thinking about that,

So on to my questions: I have been reading about both Hypex and Purifi technologies, and I guess I'd really like to understand why would I go with one or the other? Also, they both have a number of products - what's the difference in products within their respective ranges?

Here are the amps I am considering:
BoXem Arthur 4216 E2
Buckeye (about 5 different ones)
Apollon (about 10 different ones !!)

So my first 2 questions directly relate to my next questions: Which Amp to get? I think you can clearly see the direction I am leaning .. are there any other manufacturers with reasonable priced amps I should add to the list?

Once I narrow down my list, I am half-considering putting together a poll to help me with my final choice. And of course I will share out the results of my sound experience from the big library room once it's all set up. I will likely need some advice on REW / Dirac / EQ at some point, but I get ahead of myself ...

Thank you all in advance for any and all advice you can share.

- Goran

 

[Matias]

I would choose between those 2:

Apollon NCx500ST Stereo Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Apollon NCx500ST stereo class D amplifier based on Hypex NCOREx NCx500 modules. It was kindly drop shipped from the member and costs 1,090.00€ (US $1,168) with standard opamp. While the case is stamped aluminum, it is a heavily customized one...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Apollon 1ET6525SA ST Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Apollon 1ET6525SA ST Purifi based class D stereo power amplifier. It was kindly loaned to me by a member and costs 1,190.00€ (USD $1,348). Apollon designs are unique a step up from some of its competitors. Even the power switch feels nice and...

www.audiosciencereview.com

And they are so close in distortion, noise and price that the deciding factor is power, so personally NCx500 wins for the Ascend ELX towers, which are specified as:

Max Continuous Power* 400 watts
Max Short Term Peak Power* 600 watts

 

[tineared]

More info is needed before offering choices.
You really need to choose your speakers first as they are a major determining factor in your choice of amps (the Acsends are an excellent choice).
How loud do you intend to listen?
What will be the distance from the speakers to the listening position?
What is your budget?
Do you intend to get a subwoofer?
Is this for stereo only, or do you intend to expand into 5.1 or more in the future?

 

[SHB]

OK, you say your system is going into a large room so you need something that can put out some decent power. How much, though, is going to depend on the speakers you’re using and how efficient they are.

Sorry, you had way too much stuff in your post for me to really read it in detail so I’m not sure which speakers you’re going to be using in that large room.

Let me offer one word of advice: in a room that big, you’d be best to use at least a couple subwoofers to get really good bass response all the way down towards 20 Hz.

If you do have subwoofers, that simplifies my advice for the amplifier to get:
Topping B200 - two of those will provide more than enough power for anything but the most inefficient satellite speaker. I’m not sure you could hear the difference it will make, but it is a better amplifier than either of the two class D amps you’re talking about.

If you aren’t using subwoofers in that very large room, then you’re going to need the power of those class D amplifiers.

Both the Purifi and Hypex amps will work great in that situation, but the Purifi is a little cleaner in the treble region. Because of that, I would go with it.

Of the three manufacturers you listed, I would tend to go with Buckeye. They are a domestic company so the price may be a little less.

That means that any problems can be addressed without having to get involved with international shipping. Also, Buckeye seems to have a good reputation when it comes to service.

Good luck.

 

[Defi]

The difference between Hypex and Purifi is like the difference between what color you get your Porsche 911 in.

Let's just look at these two from buckeye.
Hypex: https://www.buckeyeamp.com/shop/amplifiers/hypex/ncx500/2_channel
Purifi: https://www.buckeyeamp.com/shop/amplifiers/purifi/1et6525sa/2_channel

The primary differences are power (The difference between 700W and 500W is about 1.5dB), and a higher range of input voltages for the Hypex (It looks like the RME DAC you have is 2V, in which case it makes no difference to the amp choice). The SNR and THD are both so far away from being audible it is totally moot. You really don't need to put much thought into amps like this.


I own buckeye and would buy them again because my setup doesn't advertise my amps visually and they cost less. If you prefer the case design of one of the others then I would get the same module from them.

$0.02

 

[DVDdoug]

Good amplifiers simply amplify without altering the sound. Most modern amps are better than human hearing unless over-driven into clipping/distortion and sometimes there is audible noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). Most electronics are better than human hearing (in proper blind listening tests). All active analog electronics generate some noise and the audibility depends on many things including how close you are to the speakers and the sensitivity of the speakers, etc.

Tube amplifiers can be exceptions. It's more expensive to make a good tube amp. Tube power amps require an audio output transformer which adds to the difficulty and cost. ...Tubes tend to soft clip when overdriven and guitar players often prefer tube amps for that reason. But with audio reproduction we generally try to avoid additional distortion.

The main thing with power amplifiers is wattage. You want enough power to go as loud as you want with your particular speakers in your particular space. (Of course you don't need more power than your speakers can safely handle.)

Beyond wattage you can look at features, features, "build quality", reputation for reliability, appearance, etc.

Speakers make the biggest difference.
The room acoustics make a difference too. IMO - A bigger space usually sounds better but of course size isn't the only thing that affects acoustics.

EQ and room correction can make a big difference.

and maybe a SW or 2, although I'd prefer not to) ... I'm still thinking about that,

If you have "full range" speakers that can reproduce good bass you don't need a subwoofer for stereo music. BUT if you are going to set-up a home theater system in the new space you lose the "point one" LFE channel if you don't have a separate subwoofer (and a surround decoder).

it seems that digital, DACs etc, have progressed to the point that digital sounds much more analogue than 15 years ago

Digital was technically better than analog the day CDs were introduced more than 40 years ago!. To some people analog "sounds better" and that's OK. It's an aesthetic preference. But the noise, distortion, and frequency response are worse. Often the distortion and frequency response is "good enough" but there is always background noise on records that can be heard during quiet parts and between tracks. And of course, sometimes nasty clicks and pops.

 

[Goran-P]

Great initial responses, thank you all! Sorry for such a long first post. I tried to put in a shortcut

To answer some questions:

- these will never be part of any kind of HT system. Purely 2 or 2.1 (or 2.2). Purely for audio.
- I don't like to listen too loud - generally medium loudness.
- Main sitting area is ~ 20 feet away from speakers
- I will do EQ and room correction (as long as its WAF ... so might be pretty minimal)

biggest unanswered question is speaker choice. And I recognize that is the key one. I wanted to start with AMPs as I was curious to learn about the whole Purifi / Hypex thing. Am going to post my speaker thoughts on a different post in the speaker area.

 

[jcarys]

Both Hypex or Purifi are fine options, as are the companies you listed. Find the one you like that is close to 400 watts into 8 ohms. Consider a subwoofer.

 

[tineared]

Great initial responses, thank you all! Sorry for such a long first post. I tried to put in a shortcut

To answer some questions:

- these will never be part of any kind of HT system. Purely 2 or 2.1 (or 2.2). Purely for audio.
- I don't like to listen too loud - generally medium loudness.
- Main sitting area is ~ 20 feet away from speakers
- I will do EQ and room correction (as long as its WAF ... so might be pretty minimal)

biggest unanswered question is speaker choice. And I recognize that is the key one. I wanted to start with AMPs as I was curious to learn about the whole Purifi / Hypex thing. Am going to post my speaker thoughts on a different post in the speaker area.

Both Hypex and Purifi make excellent amps and you are unlikely to hear a difference between them.
I lean towards Purifi because they appear to use some higher quality components and are simply designed better, which is why they have better specs. As I mentioned, you are unlikely to hear a difference, but I am assuming that, all else being equal, the Purifi amps will last longer and that is very important to me.
So the choice would be between the 6525SA or the 9040BA. The only difference between them is power output. 20ft listening distance in such a large space will require some power, so you need to decide how loud you intend to play them (what you consider medium loudness is not necessarily what I consider medium loudness)
If you could get a rough measurement, (in dB) using your phone, it would be useful info

 

[Goran-P]

I should mention, my budget is up to $4,000 but if I can spend 1/3 - 1/2 of that without giving up on power and quality, of course I would prefer that. Trying to keep the whole system < ~$15,000 (again, happy(er) if I can spend 1/2 of that without giving up too much on quality). Hoping to buy as much as possible used, and I'm not in a huge rush.

 

[Matias]

NCx500 + ELX and you should be golden already. Invest time in learning basic room correction and acoustics for optimizing the experience.

 

[DMill]

I should mention, my budget is up to $4,000 but if I can spend 1/3 - 1/2 of that without giving up on power and quality, of course I would prefer that. Trying to keep the whole system < ~$15,000 (again, happy(er) if I can spend 1/2 of that without giving up too much on quality). Hoping to buy as much as possible used, and I'm not in a huge rush.

Buying used can be a great way to maximize your purchase. But it’s not completely without risk. I’ve been burned a time or three. At your budget levels you don’t need to do that. But it’s easy for me to spend your money Exchanging back gear due to an unmentioned little ding on a speaker is a great example. It’s a pain in the ass and you might find yourself saying screw it and living with a blemish you will never unsee. That said, most people are honest and there are some great deals to had used for sure.

 

[Sokel]

Let's make something clear now, cause the dense text may left people missing the size:

7.01 x 9,75 x 7.0 meters, right?
So, 479m³ of volume.

I have a little more surface than you, but half the volume as my ceiling is 3.5 meters and to that I have to subtract some more for the treatment.
Plus, the MLP is half the distance of your 6 meters.

And all you care is the amp?

I hope is not trolling, cause it makes no sense.
People here may suggest anything of the amps mentioned as gear compared to each other, but the suggested set-up will be like a candle in the dark in such a room.

I hate to say it, but at your defined conditions your budget would maybe be enough for used PA to fill properly such a volume.

 

[Hear Here]

Most modern amps are better than human hearing unless over-driven into clipping/distortion and sometimes there is audible noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). Most electronics are better than human hearing (in proper blind listening tests).

Generally I agree, although I bought or borrowed 12 amps in the £3-8K price range to home demo with my Avantgarde speakers after deciding to move from SETs to ss amplification. There were a number of Class A, AB and D and I can tell you there were very considerably differences in their sound in terms of "excitement factor". Some that measured well were frankly dull to the point I wanted to turn down the volume, while other tempted one to turn it up and enjoy the performance at realistic volume levels!

Speakers make the biggest difference.
The room acoustics make a difference too. IMO - A bigger space usually sounds better but of course size isn't the only thing that affects acoustics.

Absolutely - don't consider choosing an amp before you have carefully decided upon the speakers. Firstly speaker TYPE to best work well in the room, so don't just go for a box speakers if other types are likely to respond better in your room or will deliver great sound without resorting to DSP. My own room for example won’t give electrostatics a good time, but it loves horns. Omnis would in theory be ideal in my room (the dining and kitchen areas are behind the speakers) but I value imaging too highly to consider this type.

For a large room (mine is 945 sq ft / 88 sq m but low ceiling) you should perhaps look for bigger speakers than the ones you mention. Many great buys on the used market of course. If buying new, insist on comparing a few speakers in your own home before parting with your cash! Personally, I don’t like to add the complication of subs (they usually are tricky to set up without DSP), so I tend to choose speakers that are genuinely full-range with 10” or bigger bass drivers. Current speaker have twin 12" drivers

EQ and room correction can make a big difference.

Yes, but if you've chosen your speakers well, considered your furnishings (carpets, curtains, soft furnishings, etc), the "big difference" may actually be detrimental! Work hard at getting the ideal speakers for the room, carefully set them up, in a well-furnished room and you should get better sound without DSP.

If you have "full range" speakers that can reproduce good bass you don't need a subwoofer for stereo music.

So many people ignore this fact. They buy non-ideal speakers, then think they need subs to improve bass, then can't set up these multiple speakers ideally, so resort to DSP!

Digital was technically better than analog the day CDs were introduced more than 40 years ago!. To some people analog "sounds better" and that's OK. It's an aesthetic preference. But the noise, distortion, and frequency response are worse. Often the distortion and frequency response is "good enough" but there is always background noise on records that can be heard during quiet parts and between tracks. And of course, sometimes nasty clicks and pops.

This will upset some here, but there's no denying that £X,000 spent on a simple streaming system will sound better than the same £X,000 spent on catering for multiple sources. Vinyl playback alone is crazy costly and will seriously dilute your speaker budget. In my view, spend 75+% on speakers and 25% on all your sources and electronics. In my case, all electronics are in a single great box of tricks (£4500) that deliver sublime sound (via Purifi amplification) to my £30K speakers.

PS - If you look at my Profile, you'll see that I'm currently using a streamer preamp plus power amps, but I'm likely to revert back to an all-in-one again soon!

 

[Goran-P]

This is all great info! Thank you.

Yes, it is a large space (7 x 9,75 x 7 meters as Sokol said). I am definitely planning on learning and probably depoying dsp / eq / dirac, etc. I know that's very likely needed. But I tend to listen at relatively low volumes (70 db +/- 5 db, occasionally up to 80 db). I would love to get some big honking Wilsons, but the WAF is low on those. I need to work within that constraint and resign myself to the fact that the speakers are likely to be undersized for the room, and not ideal.

 

[kemmler3D]

I should mention, my budget is up to $4,000 but if I can spend 1/3 - 1/2 of that without giving up on power and quality, of course I would prefer that. Trying to keep the whole system < ~$15,000 (again, happy(er) if I can spend 1/2 of that without giving up too much on quality). Hoping to buy as much as possible used, and I'm not in a huge rush.

...


I would love to get some big honking Wilsons, but the WAF is low on those.

With this kind of budget you can track down a pair of Revel Salon 2s and with either the Hypex or Purifi, and have a system that is arguably beyond reproach. Add a couple subs and a processor that supports Dirac ART (possible within total budget if you go used) and you will have something pretty state of the art.

Others will probably throw in Perlisten and Philharmonic as suggestions for towers in this price range.

The Wilsons do have a certain look but AFAIK they sound weird and are a poor value for dollar. Also, apparently one very infamous J. Epstein had them at his island, so for me that dampens any appeal they might have had in the first place.

 

[Defi]

This is all great info! Thank you.

It really isn't. There is absolutely nothing "wrong" about using subs and DSP... It does require more effort but it's about as hard as a video game puzzle with a guide book. There is nothing wrong with preferring 2.0 but acting as if it's superior is just foolish. If you're blessed with a room that can get a good frequency response below 100Hz while the placement of your low frequency drivers is handcuffed by their soundstage defining siblings, then by all means. Room correction is only detrimental if it has to make large corrections for one area and you intend to listen at many different places around the room. That practice doesn't lend itself to critical listening or optimised sound anyway, and should that be the case it's one click and it's off.

And I don't trust anyone that says they can hear the difference between modern ss amps in "excitement factor," (unless they have poor design or intentional curves... which if you spend any time with DSP you'll quickly find out that you'll be doing that with EQ anyway, so why have the amp confound it?).

This is exactly the kind of stuff that this place is supposed to be a bastion from.

 

[Gyosa1]

Can’t go wrong with the ELX’s - especially if they’re the Ribbons…


Bk

 

[Goran-P]

I should clarify, the room has a wooden, vaulted ceiling. The two long sides are 9ft tall, then go up steeply to a 23’ peak. Like a historic new england church. This is what I’ve got so far on the whole amp thing ( for my purpose) - stay with class D (but maybe look into topping b200), Hypex or Purifi not big difference, size based on speakers (decide on those first), but at least a 300w amp (8 ohms).

 

[Goran-P]

Oh, and I can probably get what I need for $1,500 or less (esp used)