Hypex Nilai 500 DIY Stereo Amp Kit Review

[TheWalkman]

Consider this one:
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/power-amplifiers/audiophonics-hpa-dm500nil-p-19233.html (dual psu, dual mono amp in one case)

That’s a great setup, but around €600 more than I paid for my amp in May of 2022 (€1241 )and it easilydoes everything I need without straining at all.

 

[amirm]

Did you measure an amp or a DAC?

What???

 

[pablolie]

yes, blind testing is the way to go, even if you can't switch amplifiers blindly, there are other blind test that anyone can do, it's about not knowing and fooling your brain, testing in that state, results can be suprising, it's brain chemistry after all..

Personally I think we're beyond the age when blind tasting was useful if you pick among the ton of very capable electronics available. Speakers... absolutely, pick what you like.

 

[Endibol]

It leads me to read about how negative feedback kills the musicality.

Oh no, not again

 

[BeeKay]

Oh no, not again

A wonderful proof of how infinitely difficult it is to refute semi-scientific nonsense than it is to trumpet it. Also for the fact that it is a never-ending task of Sisyphus.

 

[KL....]

I think perhaps some people like the harmonics (distortion) of lower feedback designs compared to this lovely new breed of Class D

I bought this amp and then loose all my belief in measurements. The timing is so off that it felt like that the musicians weren't playing together. Very strange. Probably OK for movies, but certainly not for music. It leads me to read about how negative feedback kills the musicality. Maybe it's not something that can be measured, but it sure can be heard. I know it won't be a popular opinion here, but it's just what it is.

Thank you, @leManu, No, if there (audioable) issues then they are likely in the areas/regions of Bass/Upper Bass/Lower Mids and >10kHz, aren't they? Intrgueing/Unusual measure in the Bass/Upper Bass/Lower Mids and with Power/BW (very) early distortion >10kHz, reasonable, especially as it measures as very Linear/FR? The Bass/Lower Bass decay could/can have audioable effects, can't they, although that would likely be in combination with the utilised Speakers (perhaps very Low/Low Sensitivety and/or Impedance), possablely/likely the Room, and Volume/Power, reasonable?

 

[Scrivs]

Huh??
A bit of coherence can unf@#k a lot of potential misunderstandings/miscommunication.

 

[DSJR]

Laughs in electronic music

What musicians? Oh, you mean the robot enslaver master programming it all, with impeccable machine timing?

HAH!!!

Been playing Phaedra and Rubycon by Tangerine Dream, recorded using hand tuned and patched analogue synths which drifted off pitch (I suspect someone 'played' with them in a rest break between takes in the Phaedra sessions, which gave us the first several minutes or so of the title track).


My take right now is that some amps have very poor control in the lower bass region (I used to call it damping factor, but it's now thought of more as a high output impedance) and many speakers with 'bumpy' impedance curves below 100Hz may well be equalised by this, giving a warmer, plump 'musical' tone not necessarily there in the recording. Compare that with an amp with very low output impedance, and the latter will sound dry, with less of an 'organic' tone. Some speakers really do seem to show this more than others I now feel, after experiments here using my old prosumer amps in stereo and bridged form and into two pairs of speakers with 'roller-coaster' impedance curves...

As for distortion, I remember the mid 80s HiFi Choice tests recommending high end amps with sinad estimated in the upper 30s to lower 40s for wonderful sound quality, good THD/IMD levels at -70dB typically and the far eastern amps with all distortions around -90dB were regarded as lean and thin toned!!! It's all there on the worldradiohistory site if you want to look (I don't mean to plug that site continuously, but I have most of the original books up until they went 'magazine size monthly' and great to see them scanned online - HiFi News could well do the same but have prevented these issues being put online I gather).

 

[Ropeburn]

HAH!!!

Been playing Phaedra and Rubycon by Tangerine Dream, recorded using hand tuned and patched analogue synths which drifted off pitch (I suspect someone 'played' with them in a rest break between takes in the Phaedra sessions, which gave us the first several minutes or so of the title track).


My take right now is that some amps have very poor control in the lower bass region (I used to call it damping factor, but it's now thought of more as a high output impedance) and many speakers with 'bumpy' impedance curves below 100Hz may well be equalised by this, giving a warmer, plump 'musical' tone not necessarily there in the recording. Compare that with an amp with very low output impedance, and the latter will sound dry, with less of an 'organic' tone. Some speakers really do seem to show this more than others I now feel, after experiments here using my old prosumer amps in stereo and bridged form and into two pairs of speakers with 'roller-coaster' impedance curves...

As for distortion, I remember the mid 80s HiFi Choice tests recommending high end amps with sinad estimated in the upper 30s to lower 40s for wonderful sound quality, good THD/IMD levels at -70dB typically and the far eastern amps with all distortions around -90dB were regarded as lean and thin toned!!! It's all there on the worldradiohistory site if you want to look (I don't mean to plug that site continuously, but I have most of the original books up until they went 'magazine size monthly' and great to see them scanned online - HiFi News could well do the same but have prevented these issues being put online I gather).

I think I get what you mean.

Basically, it's people being used to bad sound all their lives, it's what they know and expect, and that feels natural.

Then they hear something really good for the first time, and every long grown expectation is disappointed. As far as perception goes, it really does sound wrong! Very wrong, compared to what's in their brains. And of course the way to calling it bad is a very short one.

It's an evil mix of ingrained expectation and disappointment, especially when you heard so many subjective reviews and read objective measurements telling you this piece of gear is really, seriously good. It gets emotional real quick at that point.

I've had a handful of these experiences long ago. New stuff kinda sounded "hard" and "cold" compared to the old. It didn't, but rather the old stuff was muffled (I measured lol). Still sounded and felt wrong initially. It is these opportunities when you can learn a lot about relativity of perception just by self-observation and then correlation it with hard data. Very useful and a simple method I wish was much more widespread amongst audio enthusiasts.

 

[DSJR]

I think I get what you mean.

Basically, it's people being used to bad sound all their lives, it's what they know and expect, and that feels natural.

Then they hear something really good for the first time, and every long grown expectation is disappointed. As far as perception goes, it really does sound wrong! Very wrong, compared to what's in their brains. And of course the way to calling it bad is a very short one.

It's an evil mix of ingrained expectation and disappointment, especially when you heard so many subjective reviews and read objective measurements telling you this piece of gear is really, seriously good. It gets emotional real quick at that point.

I've had a handful of these experiences long ago. New stuff kinda sounded "hard" and "cold" compared to the old. It didn't, but rather the old stuff was muffled (I measured lol). Still sounded and felt wrong initially. It is these opportunities when you can learn a lot about relativity of perception just by self-observation and then correlation it with hard data. Very useful and a simple method I wish was much more widespread amongst audio enthusiasts.

Absolutely! I won't spoil the thread any more than I have already with yet more anecdotes, but I've been there too

 

[daniboun]

I bought this amp and then loose all my belief in measurements. The timing is so off that it felt like that the musicians weren't playing together. Very strange. Probably OK for movies, but certainly not for music. It leads me to read about how negative feedback kills the musicality. Maybe it's not something that can be measured, but it sure can be heard. I know it won't be a popular opinion here, but it's just what it is.
Here's the opinion of SOULNOTE Chief Designer about this:

DESIGN PHILOSOPHY

www.soulnote.co.jp

I read about the Soulnote philosophy. It's a perfect example of confirmation bias. If you want to sell your product, you have to praise it.

I've opted for a slightly different philosophy in my audio experience: you have to consider music as a whole. We've already discussed the limitations of human hearing. But a good amplifier with verified measurements remains a good amplifier, and the same goes for a DAC or a speaker. That's why we need to consider an audio chain as a whole, and in this approach, acoustic treatment and PEQ are also part of that chain.
In the end, and having experienced it myself: I think it's better to invest in an amplifier with good measurements and good speakers, and complete the setup with acoustic treatment and parametric equalization and it will make all the difference.

 

[AndreaT]

Wow, the subjectivist vs. the objectivist debate. You guys be happy and listen to music! This amp is capable of everything under the Sun. It is the final holy grail of my evolution, from a GBC 6w mono amplifier with 24 v power supply and a volume pot in 1972, through Dynaco, Sony, Krell, Mark Levinson…I am glad Amir review confirms my impression of a fabulous amp, from Mahler’s Third to Camila Cabello, and the rest is chaff. Thank you Amir!

 

[DavidM1]

In the pre-digital days of hifi subjective opinions were so important. Conversations about British and American approaches to speaker design were common. Balancing colouration between cartridges, amplifiers and speakers was the main game and piles of magazines would accumulate as everyone learnt how to care for records, angle speakers and attempted to make sense of the language of listening to hifi.

It is kind of quaint whenever that old time hifi chat turns up today. Some people still relate to it. However, when it is part of the marketing push for gear with price tags beyond sane it stops being quaint and becomes annoying, verging on fraudulent.

I’m still keen to know what is meant by timing being off, not amongst musicians but when comparing one amp to another with the same source.

 

[Ropeburn]

In the pre-digital days of hifi subjective opinions were so important. Conversations about English and American approaches to speaker design were common. Balancing colouration between cartridges, amplifiers and speakers was the main game and piles of magazines would accumulate as everyone learnt how to care for records, angle speakers and attempted to make sense of the language of listening to hifi.

It is kind of quaint whenever that old time hifi chat turns up today. Some people still relate to it. However, when it is part of the marketing push for gear with price tags beyond sane it stops being quaint and becomes annoying.

I’m still keen to know what is meant by timing being off, not amongst musicians but when comparing one amp to another with the same source.

It's kind of funny how persistent these things are, "American sound" and "British sound". Very old concepts that won't go away anytime soon.

Meanwhile, there's a third major one, although going without a name mostly: the "European sound". Europe is filled with a whole bunch of speaker companies who all share basically the same design goal: "neutral with good bass". Seems quite obvious if you think about it: you'll want fairly accurate reproduction, and then a little fun factor added, the extra bass. Seems good objectively and subjectively both, doesn't it?

In the manual of my old (German) subwoofer, the section about adapting it to main speakers described a quick and dirty, but effective method: play white or pink noise, adjust sub level so it sounds even and balanced at listening position. Then (optional), add a tiny bit of level for "fun factor", as they called it. Worked flawlessly.

 

[testp]

Personally I think we're beyond the age where blind tasting is useful if you pick among the ton of very capable electronics available. Speakers... absolutely, pick what you like.

it's just interesting, if sighted preference is established (let's say between different eq presets), then unsighted can alter it back and forth so many ways

 

[JohnnyNG]

reducing the anxiety over what amp to buy.

Not a chance.

 

[Matias]

Why do this amp and some DACs show an elevated noise floor only in the bass area? Never quite understood this. Feedback is more heavy handed on mids on purpose?

 

[Mort]

wonderful proof of how infinitely difficult it is to refute semi-scientific nonsense than it is to trumpet it

See Brandolini's Law or 'the bullshit asymmetry principal'.

 

[daniboun]

In the manual of my old (German) subwoofer, the section about adapting it to main speakers described a quick and dirty, but effective method: play white or pink noise, adjust sub level so it sounds even and balanced at listening position. Then (optional), add a tiny bit of level for "fun factor", as they called it. Worked flawlessly

I think that good bass reproduction also depends on the time synchronization between the speakers and the subwoofer. Calibrating the relative delays between the speakers and the subwoofer is very important with a 2.1 setup.
Thankfully, modern tools help us do it. Wiim does it very well, by the way...

 

[JeremyFife]

Thanks for the review, always nice to read such a good one.

Looks pretty great, slight quibble over value I suppose. Nice.

I apologise for this question; I should know, or have found the answer.
What is it about class D that gives rise to the elevated distortion > 15kHz?
I don't have a problem with it, and don't think it's an audible issue. More of an engineering / design question for my understanding