Hypex nCore vs Class A amps

[miero]

FYI: Bruno Putzeys designed also quick&dirty Class-A amplifier circuit ExtremA, which was realized and supported by Sander Sassen.

The ExtremA began as a cool idea Bruno and I cooked up on a late evening Skype session somewhere in 2006. I mentioned it would be nice to have a really high-performance DIY amplifier in the next Elektor Audio Special (for which I was the editor in chief) and Bruno mentioned he had some design ideas he'd like to try out.

Bruno sent me some drafts, I subsequently worked those into working simulations in LTspice, and we were off to something, In a matter of weeks I ordered parts for and built the first, relatively simple, prototype and drove out all the way to Belgium to evaluate the design at Bruno's lab at home. We refined a few things and I set to work on incorporating these changes into a 2nd round of prototypes, for which I purchased another set of parts, and spent a considerable amount of time constructing and testing.

The cycle repeated, with me driving out to Hypex in Groningen to do another round of testing. This 2nd prototype performed a lot better, pretty close to where we were aiming for actually, so this design was drafted as a PCB by yours truly. I ordered PCBs and the 3rd set of prototypes was ready for scrutiny a few weeks later. I again drove out to Hypex in Groningen to have the prototype measured by Bruno.

This design is what we finally settled on as it did everything we set out to do in terms of measured distortion and output power.

Source: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/96853-extrema-class-strikes-post4120130.html

ExtremA does one thing well: demonstrate that people who have been designing class A amplifiers with highish distortion figures for the past 30 years really have got something to explain... It went straight from inspiration to hardware without spending much quality time inside a cranium. Even before it was finished I caught myself thinking "I really should've done a class (A)B with a high order global loop.

Source: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/190434-hypex-ncore-post2611164.html

I might take the opportunity to comment on ExtremA. It must be the clumsiest amplifier I've designed in my whole life (you do know it's my design, don't you? If you did, that was a very nasty question

). The low input impedance, the overcomplicated folded cascode, the unnecessary class A operation, the even "unnecessarier" bridged design, all those things I'd do differently now. I think I put a grand total of 40 (forty) hours of work into that design (thanks to the poor bugger who took all the practical work out of my hands). It is saying a lot that in spite of some decidedly unfortunate design choices and in spite of the minimal effort the resulting performance was still nearly record breaking. If you pampered it on both ends (input and output), that is. Under those conditions ExtremA would probably be a tough opponent for Ncore. In more adverse circumstances, Ncore is definitely more robust and will deliver better sound more reliably.

Source: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/190434-hypex-ncore-post2609847.html

The Extrema was a summer geek-out project, a stunt if you will, for the purpose of publication in an Elektor special edition. Design-wise the Extrema is not my proudest moment. It shows all the oversights you would expect from a new design that was only ever started, never finished. It's also woefully complicated for the performance. These days, if called to design a non-class D amp I would make it a moderate bandwidth optimally biased class AB affair with an Ncore style higher order loop round it. Much simpler, much better performance too. I would never recommend anyone looking to quickly DIY a great amp to go and build an Extrema.

Source: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/96853-extrema-class-strikes-6.html#post4119971

Although initially the amplifier was not perfect & stable in all conditions (there was a bug in the stuffing guide) it had exceptional measurements:

More info in the original article:
- http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1842/extrema-reference-class-a-diy-amplifier/
and also in a thread on diyaudio:
- https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/96853-extrema-class-strikes.html

 

[Novak]

Sorry guys, I am new here and I plan to try an hypex ncore amps (to why not replace my class A). I try to catch up. 2 humble questions:
Do we know if nc250mp performs great? anything comparable with the nc400?
What are the advantage of using 2 mono blocks instead of one stereo box?

 

[PaulD]

Probably the biggest advantage of mono Hypex power amps is getting them very close to the speaker so the speaker cables are very short. There may be some other (smaller?) advantages with respect to a dedicated power supply for each channel, but that is implementation specific and difficult to advise on in general.
I cannot comment on the nc250.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Do we know if nc250mp performs great? anything comparable with the nc400?

I owned a pair of NC250MP and they perform great. For measured performance, just check their datasheet.
A bit more distortion, and somehow less power than NC400. But much better value overall.

What are the advantage of using 2 mono blocks instead of one stereo box?

For NC250MP? Not that much. Since each module has its own SMPS.

 

[ahofer]

I use the nc252mp (in a @March Audio box - p252). The 400 has better measurements, but more than likely beyond audibility. If your speakers are not terribly difficult to drive, the stereo model should be fine. I use it with Harbeth SHL5+(AE) speakers in a 12X18 room, and it seems flawless at very high volume.

 

[Novak]

Thanks a lot!
Do we know the analog input sensitivity of these amps?

 

[VintageFlanker]

Thanks a lot!
Do we know the analog input sensitivity of these amps?

1.66V for both NC250MP and NC252MP.

 

[Alou]

I am looking to get a stereo Hypex Ncore NC252MP amp (2x 150 8 ohms) from Audiophonics to pair with my Grace m902 and recently the superb Topping DX7pro.
I dont want to go for higher hypex modules beacause my speakers can take more power an do not need to.
How is the sound and quality on the NC252MP module based amps?Do these work with opamps i cant stop any on the boards.
And also i am a little sceptical about their power supply which is soldered on board.

 

[VintageFlanker]

How is the sound and quality on the NC252MP module based amps?

Most likely: transparent.

Do these work with opamps i cant stop any on the boards.

Nope. That's an all in one module, you cannot modify.

And also i am a little sceptical about their power supply which is soldered on board.

Why exactly?

 

[Alou]

Thanks for the quick reply,I was not looking to modify op-amps i just didn't see one and was curious .
Also in the tech brochure there was no mention.
I might sound naive and or irrelevant but i am not .
Being used to toroids so long for all my amps (DIY or ready made) the little power sps on board seems not enough to drive such a load.
I am not speaking engineer wise just a mention.
Last month i tried an ice power base amplifer (smaller )and was not very happy their sound sounded very artificial.
Currently i use a a pair of DIY self made tripath 2020 base monoblocks (90 watts per channel) and I am very happy with their sound ,they play
better then my Mark Levinson monblocks .
So after reading all the hype about hypex was curious if such a module base amp will be better then my tripaths ?

 

[Davelemi]

I am looking to get a stereo Hypex Ncore NC252MP amp (2x 150 8 ohms) from Audiophonics to pair with my Grace m902 and recently the superb Topping DX7pro.
I dont want to go for higher hypex modules beacause my speakers can take more power an do not need to.
How is the sound and quality on the NC252MP module based amps?Do these work with opamps i cant stop any on the boards.
And also i am a little sceptical about their power supply which is soldered on board.

I built my own NC252MP with a Ghent kit for about $450 and couldn't be happier. All of the measurements tell me it's transparent and if I'm being honest, I probably can't hear the subtle differences between this and the NC400.

 

[Alou]

Glad you are happy ,for almost the same cost there is one prebuilt by audiophonics (I want to avoid China imports due to customs) so i started
to get the shopping itch again LOL !!

 

[DonH56]

Thanks for the quick reply,I was not looking to modify op-amps i just didn't see one and was curious .
Also in the tech brochure there was no mention.
I might sound naive and or irrelevant but i am not .
Being used to toroids so long for all my amps (DIY or ready made) the little power sps on board seems not enough to drive such a load.
I am not speaking engineer wise just a mention.
Last month i tried an ice power base amplifer (smaller )and was not very happy their sound sounded very artificial.
Currently i use a a pair of DIY self made tripath 2020 base monoblocks (90 watts per channel) and I am very happy with their sound ,they play
better then my Mark Levinson monblocks .
So after reading all the hype about hypex was curious if such a module base amp will be better then my tripaths ?

SMPS' recharge their capacitors around 400,000 to 500,000 times a second instead of the 50 or 60 times a second, or the 100 to 120 times per second for a full-wave rectifier, of your old transformers. The SMPS' transformers (actually usually inductors) and capacitors can thus be much, much smaller while providing more power, and the output is regulated as well. The switching frequency is also way above the audio band so no in-band noise from the power supply. Better performance. Technology advances. Fear not.

 

[Alou]

Thats very well described , i jsut didnt like the icepower amp i tried and since they are similar in technology i began to wonder whow the hypex wiil sound .
Aslo Amir did test a hypes based 252 amp sometimes back and the results were just ok for him ,not solid performance were the words

This is the amp in question :

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...reo-amplifier-ncore-2x150w-8-ohm-p-14185.html

 

[VintageFlanker]

Currently i use a a pair of DIY self made tripath 2020 base monoblocks (90 watts per channel) and I am very happy with their sound ,they play
better then my Mark Levinson monblocks .

Are you sure these can go up 90W? (under which impedance?) Cannot find a datasheet where this module can go that high... Not to mention high distortion and so on.
In my book, the NC252MP seems to be a big upgrade regarding distortion and power.

icepower amp i tried and since they are similar in technology i began to wonder whow the hypex wiil sound .

What was the Icepower amp?

 

[Alou]

These were based on a board by a Hong Kong Company
specs are here :
I used jenzten Audio caps and Nortel Toroidal tansformers
Specifications:

• TRIPATH TA2022 single chip
• Channel Output Power:Stereo 2 x 60W / 8Ω (0.1% THD + N)
• "Audiophile" power:
  Stereo 2x45W / 8Ω (0.015% THD + N)
  Mono Bridge 1 x 90W / 8Ω (0.1% THD + N)
• Total Harmonic Distortion Rate: 0.05% (1 KHz)
• Frequency Response: 15-80 KHz (-1db)
• Signal Ratio Noise: 92dB
• Sensitivity Input Line: 200mV
• Yield: Up to 90%
• Power supply: AC 110V-230V (± 10%) 50 / 60Hz
• Maximum Power Consumption: 120W

The icepower was made by XTZ

 

[VintageFlanker]

These were based on a board by a Hong Kong Company
specs are here :
I used jenzten Audio caps and Nortel Toroidal tansformers
Specifications:

• TRIPATH TA2022 single chip
• Channel Output Power:Stereo 2 x 60W / 8Ω (0.1% THD + N)
• "Audiophile" power:
  Stereo 2x45W / 8Ω (0.015% THD + N)
  Mono Bridge 1 x 90W / 8Ω (0.1% THD + N)
• Total Harmonic Distortion Rate: 0.05% (1 KHz)
• Frequency Response: 15-80 KHz (-1db)
• Signal Ratio Noise: 92dB
• Sensitivity Input Line: 200mV
• Yield: Up to 90%
• Power supply: AC 110V-230V (± 10%) 50 / 60Hz
• Maximum Power Consumption: 120W

Thanks. I don't know under what conditions this was measured. But AP measurements in Hypex datasheet are waaaay better than that!

 

[Alou]

Of course they are !! I know hypex is the spec and Measurement champ !
They thing is that these tripath amps play so well in musical terms (sound wise) made me wonder allot about the specs!
if i had listen to a Hypex i wouldn't ask ,after getting specs and measurements comes the listening part !
Also Amir tested a hypex 252 and said it wasn't solid performance.
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurements-of-iom-ncore-pro-pwr-amp.8979/)

 

[VintageFlanker]

They thing is that these tripath amps play so well in musical terms (sound wise) made me wonder allot about the specs!
if i had listen to a Hypex i wouldn't ask ,after getting specs and measurements comes the listening part !

Well. That's not the kind of answer you will get here.
For the record, Audiophonics has a 14 days money back guarantee. Why not testing yourself your subjective impressions at home?

Also Amir tested a hypex 252 and said it wasn't solid performance.

That's not what he said:

The IOM NCore Pro amp is a solid performer courtesy of competent hypex NC252MP class D amplifier modules.

Not SOTA performance as Purifi or Benchmark, but transparent enough.

 

[Alou]

Well i misread the "No, you are not getting state of the art performance " part with out reading the rest!
You don't have to convince me that Hypex technology is very very good ,just for the shake of the investigation before a new purchase!
I have read allot about them just wanted to see impressions form user and also chat for some opinions.
Its quite nice they way you get opinions and info in this forum!!
But i guess best way is to try at home ,if they offer a 14 days trial sure why not!