Hypex nCore vs Class A amps

[Mulder]

If it is coloration/distortion you want, DSP is a better tool for that.

OK. Maybe. Du you have any example of DSP tools for that.

 

[Julf]

OK. Maybe. Du you have any example of DSP tools for that.

Here is one: Tube Saturator Vintage

 

[Mulder]

Here is one: Tube Saturator Vintage

Installed. This will be fun

 

[SIY]

Thank you for the effort to generate and post the graphs. Let's discuss now what they really represent. First, let's start with yet another experiment. Let's render exactly same sequence of samples, but at 48 KHz sampling rate. Thus, the audio signal would be at 12 KHz.

If we follow the interpretation you described, then, with the shortening of the sequence, more and more frequency lobes will be appearing; at some point they'd become audible; and as the sequence will be approaching minimum length, what we'd hear would be some kind of wide-band noise with evolving spectral envelope, mixed with original, yet diminished, peak at 12 Khz.

Yet this is absolutely not what is happening in real life. In real life, you'd be hearing the 12 KHz tone diminishing in loudness as the sequence shortens, and at some point it will become inaudible. Or it will be inaudible right away, if the system sound level is not high enough for you to hear it. There will be no wide-band noise. When the sequence shortens to the minimum length, you may hear a tone-neutral click, once again depending on the system sound level.

Why the contradiction? Because in reality no multi-tone independent components magically appear. What we see on the graphs are artifacts of digitized Fourier representation of a signal which is time-limited within the analysis window. Such artifacts are more noticeable than the usual ones we are all accustomed to seeing - such as the "spectral leakage" lobes appearing on a Fourier transform graph of a single tone, even if it is not time-limited within the analysis window.

These artifacts are not errors: if you apply reverse Fourier transform to them, using the phase values as well, you will indeed get the original sequence of samples. The artifacts just aren't real-life independent sinusoids that you can take a magnitude of, and based solely on this, estimate how loudly they'd sound.

Why do we use the Fourier representation for analysing the performance of electronic and mechanical components then? Because under the right conditions it is helpful. What are these conditions? The input signal must be a mix of constant-amplitude sinusoids represented by a long enough sequence of samples. SINAD measurements on this site are good examples of that.

It is not a coincidence either that the SINAD sinusoids are separated by 1/3 of an octave: this is the distance along the frequency axis that makes the sinusoids largely independent from each other, from the human hearing system perspective. In this case, we can take their magnitudes and estimate how loudly they'd sound, disregarding their relative phases.

Got any experimental results yet?

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

If it is coloration/distortion you want, DSP is a better tool for that.

I dont know but if the n core is really good but flat and cheap, I can buy a tube pre amp like saga+ and get coloraration or the n core + dsp
Currently I have a Nad C355BEE, which work very well for me, but a N core plus dsp or tube pre amp seems to be really nice, the n core can down his impedance very well un like my C355BEE, im wondering if it worth the money

 

[Julf]

I dont know but if the n core is really good but flat and cheap, I can buy a tube pre amp like saga+ and get coloraration or the n core + dsp
Currently I have a Nad C355BEE, which work very well for me, but a N core plus dsp or tube pre amp seems to be really nice, the n core can down his impedance very well un like my C355BEE, im wondering if it worth the money

The main benefit of DSP is adjustbility/flexibility. A tube pre has no "amount / kind of coloration" adjustment...

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

The main benefit of DSP is adjustbility/flexibility. A tube pre has no "amount / kind of coloration" adjustment...

But you can change the tubes

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Here is one: Tube Saturator Vintage

I can try this with fobar?!?

 

[Julf]

But you can change the tubes

That is a very limited degree of control.

 

[Julf]

I can try this with fobar?!?

You might need an adapter plugin.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

You might need an adapter plugin.

Which adapter? I mean I use my setup with my computer if I can use that thing for free it will be amazing xD

 

[Julf]

Which adapte? I mean I use my setup with my computer of I can use that thing for free it will be amazing xD

Not quite sure - hopefully there are foobar2000 users here. I am a pure linux user, no windows here.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

There is a program like that, a tube simulator which can be just installed in fobar2000? and using his dsp option? that program is for ProTool or something like that, isn't like install a normal plugin in fobar2000

 

[levimax]

I dont know but if the n core is really good but flat and cheap, I can buy a tube pre amp like saga+ and get coloraration or the n core + dsp
Currently I have a Nad C355BEE, which work very well for me, but a N core plus dsp or tube pre amp seems to be really nice, the n core can down his impedance very well un like my C355BEE, im wondering if it worth the money

Why do things have to be made so complicated? If you want colored sound how about good old fashioned "tone controls"?

 

[Matias]

Why do things have to be made so complicated? If you want colored sound how about good old fashioned "tone controls"?

These change amplitude of bass/treble only, while tubes add eufonic 2nd harmonic distortion.

 

[BDWoody]

Why do things have to be made so complicated? If you want colored sound how about good old fashioned "tone controls"?

One of the reasons I still use my old Nakamichi Preamp. Another is how good the tuner is.
Plus, it just looks cool.

 

[Julf]

There is a program like that, a tube simulator which can be just installed in fobar2000? and using his dsp option?

Yes. It is called "Tube Sound".

 

[levimax]

These change amplitude of bass/treble only, while tubes add eufonic 2nd harmonic distortion.

Are you sure you can hear 2nd order at -60 dB or more below the signal? I just went through a blind level matched AB test with an old tube amp vs a new SS amp and could hear no difference despite there being a huge measured distortion differences between the amps ( 63 SINAD for the tube amp and 109 SINAD for the SS amp). I also measured some small FR differences from the speaker due to the differences in internal resistance (~0.5 db over 4 Khz) but I could not hear any of this when doing level matched listening tests.

 

[Julf]

Are you sure you can hear 2nd order at -60 dB or more below the signal? I just went through a blind level matched AB test with an old tube amp vs a new SS amp and could hear no difference despite there being a huge measured distortion differences between the amps ( 63 SINAD for the tube amp and 109 SINAD for the SS amp). I also measured some small FR differences from the speaker due to the differences in internal resistance (~0.5 db over 4 Khz) but I could not hear any of this when doing level matched listening tests.

Indeed. "Tube sound", unless we talk about guitar amps with 20+% THD, is mostly uneven frequency response caused by the high output impedance.

 

[dkinric]

I dont know but if the n core is really good but flat and cheap, I can buy a tube pre amp like saga+ and get coloraration or the n core + dsp
Currently I have a Nad C355BEE, which work very well for me, but a N core plus dsp or tube pre amp seems to be really nice, the n core can down his impedance very well un like my C355BEE, im wondering if it worth the money

I fail to see why one would want to put things in the signal chain that makes things worse (distortion wise). I think introducing the "tube sound" is trying to address a problem that doesn't exist. With today's ultra low distortion DACs and Amps, you can peel away layers and get very close to the mix intended and heard in the studio. If you are not happy with this result, you should probably reconsider your speakers (ie upgrading, adding subs, addressing room nodes with dsp). Adding tubey distortion seems a very blunt and unsophisticated way to change the sound with unpredictable results. IMHO, going in the wrong direction, man.