Hypex FA253 - Clipping (Woofer)

[Digital_Thor]

Let's get the very basics in place first
Is the woofer a 4 or 8 ohm?
Did you couple the two midranges in parallel or series?
Are the midranges 4 or 8 ohm?
I assume you have 2 Fusion plate amps - do they both act exactly the same?
How did you wire the plate-amps to the drivers - soldered or clamps - wiring diagram?

I know this seems basic - but remote support is never as easy as hands on

 

[fadihusseini]

Have you measured the frequency response of the speakers with REW (or some other software)?

Yes,

The speakers are TMMW. I do have some MM lobbing, though can't subjectively hear it. They already sound fantastic, better than most high end floorstanding speakers that I recently audtioned.

My aim to try to get as much as possible for the system, finalize the EQ & final crossover before i rest them eternally in the listening room.

These are pictures of the full speakers post EQ & Crossover, gated at 5 msec. Of course, the low frequency are not nearfield - Farfield merged, 1/12 smoothing:

I will require further work on the filters.

 

[fadihusseini]

0.L has nothing to do with the Amp clipping.

All it tells you is that the voltage present at the DMM's probes is exceeding its currently used voltage range.

This is not surprising when measuring a fast tone burst using the DMM's Autorange function, which expects a stable signal.

To fix it, set the DMM manually to 40V range. It should now read the proper voltage.

Will get another multimeter and report back..

Thank you again

 

[fadihusseini]

Let's get the very basics in place first
Is the woofer a 4 or 8 ohm?
Did you couple the two midranges in parallel or series?
Are the midranges 4 or 8 ohm?
I assume you have 2 Fusion plate amps - do they both act exactly the same?
How did you wire the plate-amps to the drivers - soldered or clamps - wiring diagram?

I know this seems basic - but remote support is never as easy as hands on

Sure.

The woofer is 4 ohms. The midranges are each 8 ohms, and wired parallel. I have 2 Fusion Plate amps, both have the exact same DSP settings, and they both clip at the same levels.

The wiring from the plateamp to the drivers are soldered.

The clipping is from the soft clip limitter, specifically the woofer part. Clipping is when I play music with heavy low frequency, below 90 Hz (especially at the 60 Hz).

Thank you

 

[Digital_Thor]

Interesting. I have only encountered nasty clipping with the Fusion 123, with +10dB of boost with a 8" PA woofer, that really could not play bass - so it was boosted heavily.
So something is definitely strange here.
I have the Satori WO24P in my build, and I have no problem - but I also use a different DSP and much more powerful amplifiers - so tricky to fully know.

Maybe - if you have a copy of the settings - reset one of the plate amps - and only connect the Satori WO24 and see if you can "provoke" the problem, with no filter and no other driver connected - I'm brainstorming here
I've often "cheated" myself, with a setting I "forgot" somewhere - and only resetting everything and starting all over - on step at a time - helped me realize the mistake.

Nice build

 

[fadihusseini]

Interesting. I have only encountered nasty clipping with the Fusion 123, with +10dB of boost with a 8" PA woofer, that really could not play bass - so it was boosted heavily.
So something is definitely strange here.
I have the Satori WO24P in my build, and I have no problem - but I also use a different DSP and much more powerful amplifiers - so tricky to fully know.

Maybe - if you have a copy of the settings - reset one of the plate amps - and only connect the Satori WO24 and see if you can "provoke" the problem, with no filter and no other driver connected - I'm brainstorming here
I've often "cheated" myself, with a setting I "forgot" somewhere - and only resetting everything and starting all over - on step at a time - helped me realize the mistake.

Nice build

Actually, this is quite relevant for my setup. The clipping is due to the enabled limiter. If i turn it off, no observed clipping or distortion. The reason why i enabled the soft clipper is not to overdrive the WO24.

I contacted SB Acoustics to know what would be the max power i can drive them, please check my previous post with their reply. If I understood it correctly, the limitation is not in power, but rather max excursion. I modeled it in WinISd, and it seems that max excursion is at the very low frequencies.

Of course, I am still learning all of this, and by no means any of my simulations or measurements are error proof.

How much max or full power are you driving the WO24? Any protection in the DSP (HP Filter and PEQ Cuts at very low frequencies).

I am still far from finalizing the DSP settings, and will do iterations including resets

I appreciate your replies.

 

[Digital_Thor]

Ah... now I get it
I have a class AB power amplifier with 450W in 4 ohm for my two WO24P in parallel per side. On top of this, I have 4 subwoofers (12" and 15" )driven by 4 x 1400W - I like headroom and peace of mind
Reason I use subwoofers, is because it smoothes out the response in the entire room and is able to pressurize the room in a totally different way, than any normal speaker with "small" woofers can. My room is also quite large and has "soft" wooden floors and walls, which absorb more bass, which means that I need more, to experience the same sensation of bass.
I drive my Satori with no HP, and just let them "have it" from 400Hz and down - and find them not struggling, even at quite loud volumes. They each have a 35 liter closed volume.
Having no HP filter, eases the subwoofers integration somewhat, since there is less phase-issues.
Letting them play "all" bass frequencies + my subwoofers - also gives me 6 sources of bass - which smooth it all out even more.
The 4 Satori alone can play OK bass - but they still don't play this deep physical bass, that my subwoofers can do with ease. I also like my cabinets closed, which of-course limit the deepest bass from the Satori. Mine drop slowly below around 65Hz - naturally because of the small closed volume they play in.

May I suggest another solution?

What if you simply did not use the limiter at all - but set the input stage of the Fusion amps to something like -10-15dB - so that the WIIM Ultra can be turned to MAX, without reaching the limit of the Satori excursion?
This way, you still protect your speakers from being overdriven, and even if someone "trips" and turn the WIIM all the way up, the lowering of the input gain on the Fusion amps, would prevent you from playing too loud.
My system has an 10 channel DSP, and I can never really overdrive it, since I can set the gain in my DSP, to never reach the max level of my speakers or amplifiers. This way, the limit is the MAX setting on the pre-amplifier.

 

[fadihusseini]

Ah... now I get it
I have a class AB power amplifier with 450W in 4 ohm for my two WO24P in parallel per side. On top of this, I have 4 subwoofers (12" and 15" )driven by 4 x 1400W - I like headroom and peace of mind
Reason I use subwoofers, is because it smoothes out the response in the entire room and is able to pressurize the room in a totally different way, than any normal speaker with "small" woofers can. My room is also quite large and has "soft" wooden floors and walls, which absorb more bass, which means that I need more, to experience the same sensation of bass.
I drive my Satori with no HP, and just let them "have it" from 400Hz and down - and find them not struggling, even at quite loud volumes. They each have a 35 liter closed volume.
Having no HP filter, eases the subwoofers integration somewhat, since there is less phase-issues.
Letting them play "all" bass frequencies + my subwoofers - also gives me 6 sources of bass - which smooth it all out even more.
The 4 Satori alone can play OK bass - but they still don't play this deep physical bass, that my subwoofers can do with ease. I also like my cabinets closed, which of-course limit the deepest bass from the Satori. Mine drop slowly below around 65Hz - naturally because of the small closed volume they play in.

May I suggest another solution?

What if you simply did not use the limiter at all - but set the input stage of the Fusion amps to something like -10-15dB - so that the WIIM Ultra can be turned to MAX, without reaching the limit of the Satori excursion?
This way, you still protect your speakers from being overdriven, and even if someone "trips" and turn the WIIM all the way up, the lowering of the input gain on the Fusion amps, would prevent you from playing too loud.
My system has an 10 channel DSP, and I can never really overdrive it, since I can set the gain in my DSP, to never reach the max level of my speakers or amplifiers. This way, the limit is the MAX setting on the pre-amplifier.

Now, I'm getting Jealous ....

 

[getdadams]

Yes,

The speakers are TMMW. I do have some MM lobbing, though can't subjectively hear it. They already sound fantastic, better than most high end floorstanding speakers that I recently audtioned.
View attachment 509654


My aim to try to get as much as possible for the system, finalize the EQ & final crossover before i rest them eternally in the listening room.

These are pictures of the full speakers post EQ & Crossover, gated at 5 msec. Of course, the low frequency are not nearfield - Farfield merged, 1/12 smoothing:

View attachment 509652


I will require further work on the filters.

Beautiful! Well done! Good luck with clipping issue.