Hyperion APR-16 AV Processor Review

[darth]

Thus, I present this question to the participants in the Audio Science Review. Does the Hyperion APR-16 incorporate an analog bypass capability and, if so, how does it work?

You are likely wanting the DPR-16 version, which hopefully should see the light of the day sometime next year.

 

[PGAMiami]

I am confident that I am not alone in looking at the Hyperion APR-16 as my next AV purchase. Moreover, I suspect that I use the same room and essentially most of the same equipment to both watch movies and listen to two-channel (plus subwoofers) music. Lastly, like many others, I seek a preamp/HT processor that provides state-of-the-art room equalization.

I draw from three sources to listen to music: vinyl records, CD/SACDs, and streaming. Over the years, in both software and hardware, I have made substantial investments in the equipment I use to play them – and the outputs of my phono preamp and my DAC are analog. Currently, I own a Theta Casablanca Va, which an excellent preamplifier/HY processor. However, it is limited in what it can do; for example, while the Va does incorporate Dirac Live, it is too “processing weak” to handle BassControl and ART. For that reason, I am shopping for its replacement.

A problem for me with all the better HT processors, e.g., StormAudio and Trinnov, is that they immediately convert all analog inputs into digital. Fortunately for me, my Theta Casablanca Va has a pure analog bypass circuit, so no digital conversion of my original analog signal ever occurs between the input from analog sources and the output to my left and right main speakers. Unfortunately, no signal is sent to my powered subwoofers either.

So, one may ask, what’s the big deal? For me, that automatic A-D-A conversion is a showstopper. There is simply no way that the DAC stage in an HT processor is as good as my DAC is, nor is the signal from my phono preamp as refined after undergoing an A-D-A conversion. There are frequent times that I am willing to forgo the benefits of Dirac to be able to hear a more unprocessed version of the music.

This brings me to my question about the Hyperion APR-16. I have read its owner’s manual from cover to cover and spoken to one of AVpro/AudioControl’s “tech support” personnel, asking him whether their Hyperion has a setting to enable a pure analog bypass. He did not know and never got back to me with an answer. The manual does not address this matter either.

Thus, I present this question to the participants in the Audio Science Review. Does the Hyperion APR-16 incorporate an analog bypass capability and, if so, how does it work?

All responses are appreciated. Thank you.

Having owned one for a few months, I’m reasonably sure it does not have a pure analogue path nor does it have analogue volume control. I suggest you get a Bobwire XLR switch that can easily select between your analogue and digital sources. But keeping in mind then you have no dsp for your analogue sources.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

You are likely wanting the DPR-16 version, which hopefully should see the light of the day sometime next year.

AFAIK, none of the Hyperions (nor the latest items from Storm and Trinnov) support an analog bypass.

However, IMHO, the audible advantage of employing modern DSP room correction (Dirac - Art and Trinnov Optimizer) greatly outweighs any concern for maintaining an analog passthrough.

 

[AVphile]

AFAIK, none of the Hyperions (nor the latest items from Storm and Trinnov) support an analog bypass.

However, IMHO, the audible advantage of employing modern DSP room correction (Dirac - Art and Trinnov Optimizer) greatly outweighs any concern for maintaining an analog passthrough.

That is the great conundrum, particularly for someone who already has a decent physically treated room. My Bricasti M21 DAC does a terrific job gleaning the last bit of microdetail from the digital source it is fed. Dirac Live does a great job of pretty much optimizing the acoustics of my room, but, as an example, listen to Tracy Chapman sing "Give Me One Reason" and what first A-to-D, then Dirac processing, and finally D-to-A takes away from the reality of the presentation is instantly apparent. If I listen to "Dazed and Confused", however, I'll want to use the full Dirac Suite every time. That is why I need to retain the choice of DSP in / DSP out. The Marantz AV 10 does offer a full analog bypass, but I have my doubts about whether it can do as good a job as AudioControl or StormAudio in performing Dirac processing as well as A-D-A.

 

[PGAMiami]

That is the great conundrum, particularly for someone who already has a decent physically treated room. My Bricasti M21 DAC does a terrific job gleaning the last bit of microdetail from the digital source it is fed. Dirac Live does a great job of pretty much optimizing the acoustics of my room, but, as an example, listen to Tracy Chapman sing "Give Me One Reason" and what first A-to-D, then Dirac processing, and finally D-to-A takes away from the reality of the presentation is instantly apparent. If I listen to "Dazed and Confused", however, I'll want to use the full Dirac Suite every time. That is why I need to retain the choice of DSP in / DSP out. The Marantz AV 10 does offer a full analog bypass, but I have my doubts about whether it can do as good a job as AudioControl or StormAudio in performing Dirac processing as well as A-D-A.

With the Trinnov Altitude CI you can designate any channel such as L and R to AES, and then connect that to any DAC with AES or spdif in (using a transformer). So if your source is digital then you can avoid any A to D and back to D to A conversion. Science aside … If you want a product that feels like the Bricasti, I suggest you look at the CI.

 

[geol]

A bit pricey for home cinema gear, but I suppose there are aficionados out there. There’s no real on/off switch, no headphone jack, and no AES/EBU input. I guess that’s asking too much.
At much (very much) lower—or even comparable—price points, you’ve got options from Anthem, Marantz, McIntosh, or even NAD and Tonewinner (though the latter lacks a headphone jack, despite featuring—believe it or not—three microphone inputs) for approximately $1300.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

That is the great conundrum, particularly for someone who already has a decent physically treated room. My Bricasti M21 DAC does a terrific job gleaning the last bit of microdetail from the digital source it is fed. Dirac Live does a great job of pretty much optimizing the acoustics of my room, but, as an example, listen to Tracy Chapman sing "Give Me One Reason" and what first A-to-D, then Dirac processing, and finally D-to-A takes away from the reality of the presentation is instantly apparent. If I listen to "Dazed and Confused", however, I'll want to use the full Dirac Suite every time. That is why I need to retain the choice of DSP in / DSP out. The Marantz AV 10 does offer a full analog bypass, but I have my doubts about whether it can do as good a job as AudioControl or StormAudio in performing Dirac processing as well as A-D-A.

If you say so. I have no experience with vinyl since the last century.

 

[BJL]

A bit pricey for home cinema gear, but I suppose there are aficionados out there. There’s no real on/off switch, no headphone jack, and no AES/EBU input. I guess that’s asking too much.
At much (very much) lower—or even comparable—price points, you’ve got options from Anthem, Marantz, McIntosh, or even NAD and Tonewinner (though the latter lacks a headphone jack, despite featuring—believe it or not—three microphone inputs) for approximately $1300.

You are basing this on features. According to the bench test and review on this website, the Hyperion meets the published audio specs and has audio performance superior to any other processor reviewed to date. My most important criterion is audio performance, so long as the basic features meet needs. I would (and have) sacrificed features, particularly convenience features, for audio performance.

I bought a Tide16, which also has a somewhat limited feature set, based on the published specs and my belief, based on past performance by the manufacturer, that bench testing will confirm those specs. If the Tide didn't exist, the Hyperion would have been at the top of my list.

I sometimes think that there is too much time expended on features, and not enough on audio performance, without which those features are not important (unless one doesn't care about audio.)

 

[PGAMiami]

A bit pricey for home cinema gear, but I suppose there are aficionados out there. There’s no real on/off switch, no headphone jack, and no AES/EBU input. I guess that’s asking too much.
At much (very much) lower—or even comparable—price points, you’ve got options from Anthem, Marantz, McIntosh, or even NAD and Tonewinner (though the latter lacks a headphone jack, despite featuring—believe it or not—three microphone inputs) for approximately $1300.

The Altitude CI has 16 AES in (32 channels) and 16 AES out. Not pricy compared to a $16,500 Bricasti DAC and one of the few options that truly has multichannel in and out digital capabilities with DSP. If one shops around you'll be surprised how close the price is to an AV10.

Besides true multichannel digital in and out, the real question is choosing whether you want Dirac ART or Trinnov Optimizer/Waveforming.

The CI has an on/off on the front panel, plus a trigger input that can easily turn it on and off. Also can be turned on/off via a $180 universal remote. It does take a couple minutes to fully turn on. I leave mine one most of the time and have Alexa turn it off at midnight and on at 6 AM. It runs vey cool at idle, and you can use the triggers on the CI to turn your amps on or off while the CI is on. I would guess the CI at idle uses similar power as a high end DAC.

That said, the CI is very different than an AV10 in how it feels and how easy or difficult it is to set up. The pro studio lineage of Trinnov is very much in the DNA of the CI. Both the Trinnov and the APR16 have their quirks. if you want it to just work, like an appliance, don't get one of these, at least not yet.

 

[geol]

OK if you like it.

 

[PGAMiami]

You are basing this on features. According to the bench test and review on this website, the Hyperion meets the published audio specs and has audio performance superior to any other processor reviewed to date. My most important criterion is audio performance, so long as the basic features meet needs. I would (and have) sacrificed features, particularly convenience features, for audio performance.

I bought a Tide16, which also has a somewhat limited feature set, based on the published specs and my belief, based on past performance by the manufacturer, that bench testing will confirm those specs. If the Tide didn't exist, the Hyperion would have been at the top of my list.

I sometimes think that there is too much time expended on features, and not enough on audio performance, without which those features are not important (unless one doesn't care about audio.)

I agree, but point out the differences in DSP algorithms can overwhelm the performance differences. I liked how Dirac ART sounded, but didn't like the black box explanation of how it knew how to turn some of my speakers to absorbers, and the timing, frequency and amplitude of the absorption. The MIMO part seems more straightforward. With Waveforming you have much more control, but much less flexibility on where you put your subs, etc.

 

[PGAMiami]

If you say so. I have no experience with vinyl since the last century.

LOL, sold my Linn in 1992

 

[BJL]

I agree, but point out the differences in DSP algorithms can overwhelm the performance differences. I liked how Dirac ART sounded, but didn't like the black box explanation of how it knew how to turn some of my speakers to absorbers, and the timing, frequency and amplitude of the absorption. The MIMO part seems more straightforward. With Waveforming you have much more control, but much less flexibility on where you put your subs, etc.

This is an excellent and very interesting point for anyone considering a processor, and one that I wish there was more discussion in technical reviews. You are correct, the Tide16 (and others) are based on either (or a combination of) manual DSP via its built-in PEQ, channel delays, etc. and Dirac software, whereas Trinnov has championed its Waveforming technology.

I have no idea which is better, and I have been very happy with Dirac (and the Tide) thus far. But not to put too much of a point on it, the Trinnov products are thousands of euros/dollars more expensive and are probably out of reach financially for most, certainly me. For that reason, any advantages that Trinnov Waveforming may have are entirely academic from my perspective, where the Tide, and Hyperion, are within reach.

I give Dirac credit for developing software that, while not cheap, is within the means of audio hobbyists. I gather reading posts here and elsewhere, that knowledgable and energetic folks are able to combine PEQ and other features with Dirac to fine tune and enhance audio. Not me, I'm too lazy.

 

[PGAMiami]

This is an excellent and very interesting point for anyone considering a processor, and one that I wish there was more discussion in technical reviews. You are correct, the Tide16 (and others) are based on either (or a combination of) manual DSP via its built-in PEQ, channel delays, etc. and Dirac software, whereas Trinnov has championed its Waveforming technology.

I have no idea which is better, and I have been very happy with Dirac (and the Tide) thus far. But not to put too much of a point on it, the Trinnov products are thousands of euros/dollars more expensive and are probably out of reach financially for most, certainly me. For that reason, any advantages that Trinnov Waveforming may have are entirely academic from my perspective, where the Tide, and Hyperion, are within reach.

I give Dirac credit for developing software that, while not cheap, is within the means of audio hobbyists. I gather reading posts here and elsewhere, that knowledgable and energetic folks are able to combine PEQ and other features with Dirac to fine tune and enhance audio. Not me, I'm too lazy.

It's amazing how close you can get to perfection without a pro calibration using Dirac ART on a Denon receiver, and how accommodating it is to various room
shapes, non matching subs, etc I would expect it only gets better with a Tide16

 

[peng]

I give Dirac credit for developing software that, while not cheap, is within the means of audio hobbyists. I gather reading posts here and elsewhere, that knowledgable and energetic folks are able to combine PEQ and other features with Dirac to fine tune and enhance audio. Not me, I'm too lazy.

I have done that with my HT and HTx and the Dirac Live PC suite, but if I understand right, you can't really combine Dirac with the Tide 16's PEQ/BIQUAD, are you saying you can do that?

 

[BJL]

I have done that with my HT and HTx and the Dirac Live PC suite, but if I understand right, you can't really combine Dirac with the Tide 16's PEQ/BIQUAD, are you saying you can do that?

You can, if you set up the other DSP prior to engaging ART.

Dirac requires locking of all downstream DSP after ART has been set up. The frequent advice is to modify the target curve, but you can also create a new preset, do whatever it is you want with PEQ etc., and then run Dirac measurements. Result will be ART filters incorporating your PEQ modifications. OR create a new preset, make PEQ etc. modifications, and then import your Dirac filter to the new preset, in which case you will get ART processed through those modifications.

Please note: Locking of downstream DSP does not mean disregard. On the Tide (and I presume other licensed AVPs) Dirac will disregard and bypass custom bass management, but not the other output controls.

What you cannot do in an ART system, is modify output controls (such as PEQ) with ART engaged. The only exceptions on the Tide is LFE channel (not sub) level and center channel level, both of which can be +/-10 dB in .5 dB increments at any time. This is done before the Dirac block.

Supposedly Storm Audio products allow or allowed some modifications with ART engaged. This would not be permitted under the current Dirac license, and it is just something I read mentioned, no idea if it is true or up to date accurate.

 

[PGAMiami]

You can, if you set up the other DSP prior to engaging ART.

Dirac requires locking of all downstream DSP after ART has been set up. The frequent advice is to modify the target curve, but you can also create a new preset, do whatever it is you want with PEQ etc., and then run Dirac measurements. Result will be ART filters incorporating your PEQ modifications. OR create a new preset, make PEQ etc. modifications, and then import your Dirac filter to the new preset, in which case you will get ART processed through those modifications.

Please note: Locking of downstream DSP does not mean disregard. On the Tide (and I presume other licensed AVPs) Dirac will disregard and bypass custom bass management, but not the other output controls.

What you cannot do in an ART system, is modify output controls (such as PEQ) with ART engaged. The only exceptions on the Tide is LFE channel (not sub) level and center channel level, both of which can be +/-10 dB in .5 dB increments at any time. This is done before the Dirac block.

Supposedly Storm Audio products allow or allowed some modifications with ART engaged. This would not be permitted under the current Dirac license, and it is just something I read mentioned, no idea if it is true or up to date accurate.

Very useful post but since this is an APR16 thread I thought it was worth mentioning again that Dirac on the firmware version I had did not bypass the bass management and crossovers, although it did lock them down. Very important to set all your speakers to full bandwidth prior to any Dirac measurements. I would expect this is something they will fix with firmware updates. The APR16 also has PEQ. I didn’t try using it when I had my unit.

 

[BJL]

Very useful post but since this is an APR16 thread I thought it was worth mentioning again that Dirac on the firmware version I had did not bypass the bass management and crossovers, although it did lock them down. Very important to set all your speakers to full bandwidth prior to any Dirac measurements. I would expect this is something they will fix with firmware updates. The APR16 also has PEQ. I didn’t try using it when I had my unit.

Well someone asked so I answered, and anyway, all ART licensed devices should operate the same. If the Hyperion is noncompliant in some respect that should be reported as a bug.

@peng thinking about it, I'm not sure about the second use application (importing a Dirac filter and then engaging ART.) I'm going to inquire, I just would like to know, because the second use case would break the Dirac filter so it may not be possible. I have the info somewhere. I will look.

 

[Ladipoe@98]

Having native Dante support and a fully usable Linux/web GUI makes this a dream for custom CI integration, though at $8k + Dirac license costs, it's definitely pushing hard into Storm/Trinnov territory. Still, class-leading SINAD on an AVP is a breath of fresh air.

 

[PGAMiami]

Having native Dante support and a fully usable Linux/web GUI makes this a dream for custom CI integration, though at $8k + Dirac license costs, it's definitely pushing hard into Storm/Trinnov territory. Still, class-leading SINAD on an AVP is a breath of fresh air.

Dante is 2 channel only on the APR16. It’s not far if you add Dirac ART from the street price of an Altitude CI if you negotiate with a dealer that’s flexible, although I expect the street price on thc APR16 is much less than $8k.