Humble hifi Plutone

[Mivera]

Ah I see. Ok, now I'm really lost. That looks like a perfect DAC/Pre you would hook an active speaker to. I see no amps on your site, why do you need passive speakers?

Because there's a matching amp to go along with it. I will have details on the website soon. See post #15:

http://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-phison-pd2-dac-preamp.77/

 

[amirm]

AJ can you afford to send a pair of your speakers to Mike for evaluation? Or are you too broke or cheap to do so???

 

[Mivera]

AJ can you afford to send a pair of your speakers to Mike for evaluation? Or are you too broke or cheap to do so???

I would send him a PD2 to do the same, but I'm too broke and cheap for that!

 

[AJ Soundfield]

I see. So you aren't the designer, you are carrying that line. Gotcha, just found their website.
Well, you still have the option of using an active speaker obviously, though if you are wanting to demo the amp, yes of course passive.
The problem is demo rooms, like listening rooms, can vary all over the place. Having good off axis helps mitigate variability.

 

[Mivera]

I see. So you aren't the designer, you are carrying that line. Gotcha, just found their website.
Well, you still have the option of using an active speaker obviously, though if you are wanting to demo the amp, yes of course passive.
The problem is demo rooms, like listening rooms, can vary all over the place. Having good off axis helps mitigate variability.

It also helps increase reflections.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

AJ can you afford to send a pair of your speakers to Mike for evaluation? Or are you too broke or cheap to do so???

No, I'm actually working on several "touring" pairs of speakers, since I'm growing wary of traveling to audio shows. I reduced it from 4-5 to 1 last year, Axpona. Skipping that this year, looking at just RMAF. Maybe even LSAF, though that's an oddball if there ever were one, but I have both friends and relatives in Texas.
I assume Mike is "Mivera". Canada eh? Well, have relatives there too (Calgary), but shipping touring speakers outside the ConUSA was not in the plans. Maybe.

 

[Mivera]

No, I'm actually working on several "touring" pairs of speakers, since I'm growing wary of traveling to audio shows. I reduced it from 4-5 to 1 last year, Axpona. Skipping that this year, looking at just RMAF. Maybe even LSAF, though that's an oddball if there ever were one, but I have both friends and relatives in Texas.
I assume Mike is "Mivera". Canada eh? Well, have relatives there too (Calgary), but shipping touring speakers outside the ConUSA was not in the plans. Maybe.

I'm more interested in doing in home demo's. The client's will likely already have a system, and speakers setup, as well as familiarity with their rooms. So in case they had horrible speakers already, I want to bring along a compact pair of reference quality monitors that let the music through in the purest way possible, rather than the shortcomings of the passive components. However I can bring along a bag of Bennic resistors if the client prefers them in the signal path. We can daisy chain 10-20 0.1 ohm Bennic's in series with the positive input to match the efficiency of whatever they have.

Mivera is actually Mike combined with my Wife Veranika. Yes I know super original

 

[Don Hills]

The price for a 2 way ported speaker.

Ouch. Yes, I see what you mean.

 

[Mivera]

Ouch. Yes, I see what you mean.

Yes quite unreasonable especially when compared to commercial designs in the same league. But unfortunately these speakers have resistors in the signal path.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue73/kawero_chiara.htm

 

[AJ Soundfield]

But unfortunately these speakers have resistors in the signal path.

As do these: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/archive.html
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/archive.html
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Otello.html
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/HATT-VIII.html
How do you reconcile that?

 

[h.g.]

But unfortunately these speakers have resistors in the signal path.

Why are resistors in the signal path a problem?

Is the resistance of the voice coil in the signal path also a problem?

If resistors in the signal path are a problem would it be better to remove all the components of the passive crossover and use an active crossover before the power amplifier?

 

[Mivera]

As do these:
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/archive.html
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Otello.html
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/HATT-VIII.html
How do you reconcile that?

This is because they were required in those designs. The fact they weren't required in this design is one of the reasons that make it great.

Resistors are an evil, that is usually necessary to achieve the end goal. However if you can achieve the end goal without them, you get to reap the benefits.

 

[Mivera]

Why are resistors in the signal path a problem?

Is the resistance of the voice coil in the signal path also a problem?

If resistors in the signal path are a problem would it be better to remove all the components of the passive crossover and use an active crossover before the power amplifier?

They aren't a problem if maximum fidelity isn't your goal.

Yes of course. As long as the components before the amplifier are good. There's a reason active designs are beneficial. However the total implementation from source to speaker drivers is what really matters.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

This is because they were required in those designs.

And all the Troels ones too. So every speaker they make, with the exception of this one, is sonically compromised. Are they aware of this?
I assume this extends to the 99.9% of high end passive speakers that surely use resistors also. Fascinating.

The fact they weren't required in this design is one of the reasons that make it great.

According to who? Have you heard them?

Resistors are an evil, that is usually necessary to achieve the end goal. However if you can achieve the end goal without them, you get to reap the benefits.

Evil?? Are we talking psychological or real here?
And the 8 trillion resistors in the signal path of and sonically embedded in every recording you own?

 

[Mivera]

And all the Troels ones too. So every speaker they make, with the exception of this one, is sonically compromised. Are they aware of this?
I assume this extends to the 99.9% of high end passive speakers that surely use resistors also. Fascinating.


According to who? Have you heard them?


Evil?? Are we talking psychological or real here?
And the 8 trillion resistors in the signal path of and sonically embedded in every recording you own?

You can read the original write up over if you wish. He does explain things quite clearly I found.


http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Plutone.html

 

[h.g.]

They aren't a problem if maximum fidelity isn't your goal.

Is it reasonable to assume from your ducking the question of why resistors are problem and whether the resistance of the voice coil is also a problem that you do not know any reasons that would stand up to scrutiny? It is more that you have faith in people like the chap from Humble Homemade Hi-Fi that state they are a problem. Which raises the interesting question why have you opted to have faith in such people?

Aren't you curious about the reasons why resistors are "evil" and a bit suspicious when reasons and measurements quantifying the evilness of different resistors are not provided?

You cite the write up for the speakers which I presume did not press warning buttons for you like I would expect it to do for those with a technical background. For example, do you really believe cabinets singing along and enhance some types of music while degrading others? And changing the thickness changes which types are enhanced and which degraded? Perhaps you do but if not why doesn't it trigger doubts about what else the author has to say?

Yes of course. As long as the components before the amplifier are good. There's a reason active designs are beneficial. However the total implementation from source to speaker drivers is what really matters.

Is it cheap and straightforward to make good active crossovers or do they require, for example, expensive high performance integrated circuits to sound good?

 

[Mivera]

Is it reasonable to assume from your ducking the question of why resistors are problem and whether the resistance of the voice coil is also a problem that you do not know any reasons that would stand up to scrutiny? It is more that you have faith in people like the chap from Humble Homemade Hi-Fi that state they are a problem. Which raises the interesting question why have you opted to have faith in such people?

Aren't you curious about the reasons why resistors are "evil" and a bit suspicious when reasons and measurements quantifying the evilness of different resistors are not provided?

You cite the write up for the speakers which I presume did not press warning buttons for you like I would expect it to do for those with a technical background. For example, do you really believe cabinets singing along and enhance some types of music while degrading others? And changing the thickness changes which types are enhanced and which degraded? Perhaps you do but if not why doesn't it trigger doubts about what else the author has to say?


Is it cheap and straightforward to make good active crossovers or do they require, for example, expensive high performance integrated circuits to sound good?

It's not based on any experience at all. It's strictly based on the fact Tony said so. This is why I'm going to bring a bag of Bennic resistors along on my tour. For those who prefer resistors in the signal path. I can even build a set of cables out of daisy chained 0.1 ohm resistors soldered together with lead based plumbers solder if they wish.

The finest active crossovers come free with any Chinese plate amps. Cheaper the better. Any more than that and you are throwing your money in the wind.

 

[Opus111]

Is it cheap and straightforward to make good active crossovers or do they require, for example, expensive high performance integrated circuits to sound good?

In my experience, straightfoward active crossovers can be built with (very cheap) cooking-grade opamps and can sound good, provided power supply and opamp loading details are attended to. Such attention is seldom seen in commercial products which could be why opamps have such a bad name amongst audiophiles.

 

[h.g.]

It's not based on any experience at all. It's strictly based on the fact Tony said so.

The finest active crossovers come free with any Chinese plate amps. Cheaper the better. Any more than that and you are throwing your money in the wind.

It is a pity you have gone defensive and are ducking the questions. Why you are attracted to such a speaker is an interesting topic because it helps shed light on how the audiophile phenomenon works. For many with a technical background I suspect a fair amount of what audiophiles find attractive is baffling. But interesting.

 

[Mivera]

It is a pity you have gone defensive and are ducking the questions. Why you are attracted to such a speaker is an interesting topic because it helps shed light on how the audiophile phenomenon works. For many with a technical background I suspect a fair amount of what audiophiles find attractive is baffling. But interesting.

I updated my original statement. I believe the customer is always right so I'm willing to offer choice.