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Human beliefs sure are weird. Why is it so difficult to get audiophiles to accept the existence of perceptual bias?

Julf

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Here is one, with not only me in our Brigand, but a couple of older ones:
Brig1.jpg
 

Cosmik

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Here is one, with not only me in our Brigand, but a couple of older ones:
That is definitely not an average car.
 

Julf

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That is definitely not an average car.

Indeed. Not very many made. The first one of mine was a co-founder of Virgin Records (no, not Branson), so I have definitely kept and restored the cassette player. Think of all the demo tapes it has played...

Oh, the picture is taken at the Bristol Filton airfield (home of both the Bristol Aeroplane Company and Bristol Cars) just before it closed.
 

Get a hearing test

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Everyone has different ears. Some cant perceive higher notes or everything sounds the same. Others are half deaf and dont even know it. A lot of people have never cleaned the inner ear wax since they were born. Want the biggest sound improvement? Go to an ear doc and have them check the ears. You wont believe the difference until you hear it.
 

Juhazi

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True!
I have had a sporty car ever since I could afford one.
I worked in the motor racing business most of my career and have had plenty of experience being driven around a circuit by F1 drivers, a trip round the old Nurburgring with Keke Rosberg and Brands Hatch with Carlos Reutemann being very memorable, so I know how far from state of the art my driving is.

Heh, Keke likes to drive rallycars too!

ps. How many of you knew that Keke lived in Iisalmi (home of Genelec) as a kid? Of course G came 20 years after that..
 
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digicidal

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That video brings up another issue with subjective reviews... in that they almost always conveniently forget application. Although this can be a factor in objective analysis as well. Say there's an amp that has lower noise to 50W but then it rises sharply, and another that's not as clean but maintains that level to 200W - if you have sensitive speakers and listen at low volume, the first should be subjectively better... but for a different application not nearly as good as the second one.

In the case of the cars... I doubt anyone would prefer (if offered for free) a busted rally car over an exotic supercar... unless their commute is through 2 feet of snow - then suddenly the former becomes the only viable choice.

So many subjective reviews would be less offensive if every statement were followed with the words "For me in my system" - but so often they instead use definitive statements which are seldom accurate and never universal. That's even before you consider that they're often talking about things that cannot be a universally definitive criteria at all (i.e. a 65 year old talking about the fantastic high frequency entension).
 

yuki900

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The biggest issue i notice is when that a lot of reviewers love saying ignorant things that have no objective basis, it comes off as them making up terms like BA bass or timbre. The andro, W40 and more are 6db and above bass wise i know some who will argue how there still weak to a Dynamic with any reason why beyond trust my ears.
 

digicidal

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The biggest issue i notice is when that a lot of reviewers love saying ignorant things that have no objective basis, it comes off as them making up terms like BA bass or timbre. The andro, W40 and more are 6db and above bass wise i know some who will argue how there still weak to a Dynamic with any reason why beyond trust my ears.

Although I don't know what "BA bass" refers to, timbre is quantifiable (though only qualified subjectively perhaps). Psycho-acoustic phenomenon might differ in description or desirability - but that doesn't mean most of it isn't easily measureable (and certainly isn't "made up words"). The simple fact that a stereo signal is perceived to have depth and width of sound-stage is psycho-acoustics as well... but that doesn't mean phase and impulse can't be measured and described objectively. Same applies to timbre. It's just that it's nearly impossible to determine from those measurements what a particular listener will prefer or perceive with specificity.

If I misunderstood your post - then I apologize in advance. I've been up working for way too long today.
 

yuki900

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Although I don't know what "BA bass" refers to, timbre is quantifiable (though only qualified subjectively perhaps). Psycho-acoustic phenomenon might differ in description or desirability - but that doesn't mean most of it isn't easily measureable (and certainly isn't "made up words"). The simple fact that a stereo signal is perceived to have depth and width of sound-stage is psycho-acoustics as well... but that doesn't mean phase and impulse can't be measured and described objectively. Same applies to timbre. It's just that it's nearly impossible to determine from those measurements what a particular listener will prefer or perceive with specificity.

If I misunderstood your post - then I apologize in advance. I've been up working for way too long today.

It's a term reviewers use to act how a balanced armature IEM sounds different than a Dynamic driver. A DBT of the ER2SE to the ER4XR is possible because i wonder how much expectation or sighted bias is at play.
 

Dimitrov

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The words I detest the most in subjective reviews is "synergy" or "PRAT". Completely meaningless descriptors that vary depending on the person talking.
 

Julf

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The words I detest the most in subjective reviews is "synergy" or "PRAT". Completely meaningless descriptors that vary depending on the person talking.

"Prat" actually describes most reviewers pretty well.
 

yuki900

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Wasn't PRAT there way of poorly explaining driver differences that may or may not be there?. Because attack and decay seems to be the new name in newer reviews?.
 

ahofer

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Slam. Air. Along with PRaT “pace, rhythm, timing”.

Sometimes you have a glass of wine and listen to a great recording and are carried away. This, of course, must be attributed to the (insert florid and vague adjectives here) properties of the most expensive, blingy, and visible, parts of the system. After all, you were looking at them when it happened.
 

Ron Texas

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Slam. Air. Along with PRaT “pace, rhythm, timing”.

Sometimes you have a glass of wine and listen to a great recording and are carried away. This, of course, must be attributed to the (insert florid and vague adjectives here) properties of the most expensive, blingy, and visible, parts of the system. After all, you were looking at them when it happened.

Or the wine...
 

ahofer

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Or the wine...

Yes, wine is an underrated component of any good system. Like tube and SS preferences, some prefer Scotch. Meditation, in fact, is a severely underrated component.

Other underrated components: a good set of earplugs for us urban transit-users; an engrossing book; most of all an affectionate spouse (sometimes requires abandoning room treatments).
 

RichB

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Yes, wine is an underrated component of any good system. Like tube and SS preferences, some prefer Scotch. Meditation, in fact, is a severely underrated component.

There are benefits to moisturizing the cochlea with spirits to improve the listening experience. :p

AuditorDiagram.jpg


- Rich
 

Kal Rubinson

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There are benefits to moisturizing the cochlea with spirits to improve the listening experience. :p

View attachment 32204
Actually, the alcohol does get into the inner ear, specifically into the endolymph of the inner ear's scala media (not shown in the diagram).
 

RichB

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Actually, the alcohol does get into the inner ear, specifically into the endolymph of the inner ear's scala media (not shown in the diagram).

Who knew.
I'll test it out with a single-malt tomorrow.

- Rich
 
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