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HSU HB-1 MK2 Review (Horn Speaker)

B4ICU

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Read the manual. Company provides specific recommendations for both.

From my experience, the manual is the place to start with, not to end with.
It's a guideline that moving things around a bit (closer or away from walls), provides different sound, many times better.
To move a speaker a little here or there is the cheapest upgrade to sound you may found. I know another one, but it's not for this tread.
Or maybe it is?
It's practically free and has a lot to improve.
Still the question remains: did you ever try to fix a loudspeaker measurement or a listening audition, and B4 doing EQ,
trying to fiddle a bit with the placement?
 
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MZKM

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Any particular reason for not?
Passive speakers are minimum phase (time invariant), so any ringing in the waterfall chart has to be caused by a peak at the initial 0 time.

Speakers with active crossovers could be using filters that aren’t minimum phase, so there can be stuff over time not present at 0 time.
 

richard12511

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From my experience, the manual is the place to start with, not to end with.
It's a guideline that moving things around a bit (closer or away from walls), provides different sound, many times better.
To move a speaker a little here or there is the cheapest upgrade to sound you may found. I know another one, but it's not for this tread.
Or maybe it is?
It's practically free and has a lot to improve.
Still the question remains: did you ever try to fix a loudspeaker measurement or a listening audition, and B4 doing EQ,
trying to fiddle a bit with the placement?

Much of the benefit of re-positioning speakers comes from an in improvement in soundstage/imaging. Since Amir is just listening to 1 speaker, it's not really comparable to the positioning requirements of end users listening in stereo. Also, proper positioning has a lot to do with the room itself, as well as the location of the listening position. Given that these factors are completely different from Amir's situation to yours, again it's hard for him to really give advice that would apply to you.
 

B4ICU

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Much of the benefit of re-positioning speakers comes from an in improvement in soundstage/imaging. Since Amir is just listening to 1 speaker, it's not really comparable to the positioning requirements of end users listening in stereo. Also, proper positioning has a lot to do with the room itself, as well as the location of the listening position. Given that these factors are completely different from Amir's situation to yours, again it's hard for him to really give advice that would apply to you.

Sorry, the imaging is coming mostly from the toe in, which the manual is very specific about.
The distances from side and back walls are mostly about tonal balance.
As most high Fr. is directional, the lows are surrounding the box 360 deg, the lower they get.
1624460707330.gif


1624460818381.jpeg

Walls reflect it and that's an amplified bass. it is common thumb rule, hat one wall add +3dB and two walls add +6dB to the bass.
For conventional speakers, this is why the speakers need to be place apart from the walls. Sometimes a lot.
With horn's it's mostly the opposite. the walls natural amplification of the lows, compensate to the high efficiency of the mid/high horns.
I own a Klipsch Forte II, that has a 99dB/w/m SPL and the speaker must stay in the corner.
The balance between the two (high and low Fr.) is achieved by that.
I am disturbed by the manual recommandations, that tie the two (back wall and side wall distance) to the stand height.
That highet could vary by 0.5m with listener seat and height. None should affect the distance of the walls, as the two serve for different purposes.
I'm commenting the placement issue. not asking for advice.
 
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Robbo99999

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Who says you have to go with ML's TOTL model for a 1kW amp? There's always Crown or Behringer.
Cool, are they more sensibly priced, what kind of ballpark figures are you talking for 1kW amp from those guys? Again we're considering matching it with a $200 speaker.
 

ooheadsoo

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Sorry, the imaging is coming mostly from the toe in, which the manual is very specific about.
The distances from side and back walls are mostly about tonal balance.
As most high Fr. is directional, the lows are surrounding the box 360 deg, the lower they get.
View attachment 137082

View attachment 137083
Walls reflect it and that's an amplified bass. it is common thumb rule, hat one wall add +3dB and two walls add +6dB to the bass.
For conventional speakers, this is why the speakers need to be place apart from the walls. Sometimes a lot.
With horn's it's mostly the opposite. the walls natural amplification of the lows, compensate to the high efficiency of the mid/high horns.
I own a Klipsch Forte II, that has a 99dB/w/m SPL and the speaker must stay in the corner.
The balance between the two (high and low Fr.) is achieved by that.
I am disturbed by the manual recommandations, that tie the two (back wall and side wall distance) to the stand height.
That highet could vary by 0.5m with listener seat and height. None should affect the distance of the walls, as the two serve for different purposes.
I'm commenting the placement issue. not asking for advice.
This speaker's high frequency peak is in the top octave. That's far above any baffle step compensation issue, and the crossover looks to be in the 2khz region.

The EQ settings suggested are for anechoic speaker correction - to be applied before correction for room issues.
 

beagleman

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Hsu Research takes pride in being an engineering-based company so I am surprised the measurements aren’t better than what the Klippel revealed. Still, I am not surprised they sound good given the large and loyal following they have.


I have said this countless times.

After having owned a speaker that measured a bit similar, (dip around 3-5khz) and a bit of a boosted treble, that sound is highly listenable, even if it is not ruler flat accurate.

All deviations from flat are not necessarily worse sounding to many people. Some dips and rises, add to the enjoyment. EVEN when not truly ruler flat.

When I tried to eq the dip around 3-5 khz, it sounded better on Pink Noise, but always worse on almost all music. At first music sounded better also, but over a bit of time, too forward or a tad strident.
 
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maverickronin

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Cool, are they more sensibly priced, what kind of ballpark figures are you talking for 1kW amp from those guys? Again we're considering matching it with a $200 speaker.

The NX3000 claims 2x900W @ 4 ohms. $260 at Sweetwater at the moment.

The XLi 3500 claims 2X1350 @ 4 ohms. $775 at Sweetwater.

You can save even more by hunting for similar pro sound amps used on eBay or something.

They won't do it nearly as cleanly as Amir's Mark Levinson monsters, but I'm not sure you'd be able to tell that much of a difference when you are pushing the speaker that hard.
 

Robbo99999

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The NX3000 claims 2x900W @ 4 ohms. $260 at Sweetwater at the moment.

The XLi 3500 claims 2X1350 @ 4 ohms. $775 at Sweetwater.

You can save even more by hunting for similar pro sound amps used on eBay or something.

They won't do it nearly as cleanly as Amir's Mark Levinson monsters, but I'm not sure you'd be able to tell that much of a difference when you are pushing the speaker that hard.
That's good to know, it's a lot more inline with the cost of the speakers, so the hard to drive nature of these speakers doesn't have to rule these speakers out from an amplifier cost point of view.
 
OP
amirm

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Iam surprised. With two things.

1) @amirm is such a roughneck to try to push nearly 1kW in this tiny things.
2) That this tiny things are such roughnecks that they could stand it longer than 10sec before they showed whining there white flag with blue smoke.

Respect.
We don't do wimpy speaker reviews around here. That is reserved for fluff youtubers. :D

Seriously, if there is any sign of distress, I don't go there. The remote is in my hand and I know the test clips that cause issues. I always start with very low volume and gradually go up from there. The instant there is stress, I turn the volume back down.

In this case, the speaker handled power and distortion with grace so I pushed it a bit more. Even then, I only listen briefly for a few seconds at those levels.

Net, net, no speakers are harmed in such testing. :)
 

beagleman

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We don't do wimpy speaker reviews around here. That is reserved for fluff youtubers. :D

Seriously, if there is any sign of distress, I don't go there. The remote is in my hand and I know the test clips that cause issues. I always start with very low volume and gradually go up from there. The instant there is stress, I turn the volume back down.

In this case, the speaker handled power and distortion with grace so I pushed it a bit more. Even then, I only listen briefly for a few seconds at those levels.

Net, net, no speakers are harmed in such testing. :)

Was it TRULY 1000 Watts or more like 992 or some odd figure?? (humor mode)
 

B4ICU

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How do you keep the mids from being completely demolished?

It's not my job. It's the designer's job.
A given speaker is design to sound right at a specific position.
A horn loaded speaker, is design to sound right with the help of the side and back walls (mostly a corner, as the famous Klipsch Horn does).
When it is placed at that specific spot, all bands (low, mid and high) sound right.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Was it TRULY 1000 Watts or more like 992 or some odd figure?? (humor mode)
Wattage talk is always a fish story. Don't you know that???
 

B4ICU

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Much of the benefit of re-positioning speakers comes from an in improvement in soundstage/imaging. Since Amir is just listening to 1 speaker, it's not really comparable to the positioning requirements of end users listening in stereo. Also, proper positioning has a lot to do with the room itself, as well as the location of the listening position. Given that these factors are completely different from Amir's situation to yours, again it's hard for him to really give advice that would apply to you.

Up's
As my memory recalls, Amir is testing only one speaker. So is for listening session. Most likely because he has only one speaker.
He also claimed that he has only one channel Amp. So it's no way to test or listen to a pair.
Imaging is irrelevant.
 

David_M

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Have you guys heard of the "BBC Dip" (BBC = British Broadcasting Corporation) ... It's an intentional 1-2db notch in the speaker response between 1kHz-4kHz. That was put in BBC monitor studio speakers based on psychoacoustic tests they did back then. Flat speaker frequency response is NOT desirable to the human ear. By having this dip, the speaker's sound is less forward, more polite (less bright), not "up in your face" sounding, giving an enhanced sense of depth. It is said to be more accurate according to BBC sound engineers...and these guys know what good sound should sound like.

Even PsAudio is implementing the BBC dip in their new FR30 speakers coming out this fall. It just sounds that pleasant. Even Bob Craver himself recommended it to me when I had him modify his 180W Red Cherry tube amps for more power into lower impedances for my Martin Logan speakers that dipped into 0.5ohms at 20kHz. (350W to 400W) now.

https://www.psaudio.com/askpaulvideo/the-bbc-dip/.


 
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More Dynamics Please

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Hmm I hope the CCB-8 gets measured, it looks interesting as a point source 2-way with a giant 8 inch woofer. I wonder if that solution is better than a 3-way like the upcoming ELAC UBR62.

Interesting point about the CCB-8 is that Hsu recommends amplifier power of up to 400 watts RMS per channel. Not many 2-way bookshelf speakers with a single 8" woofer are rated for that much power. In fact many towers aren't rated that high. By comparison Hsu recommends up to 250 watts for the HB-1 which @amirm validated in this test.
 
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