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How to Turn an LG V20 into a dedicated DAP (and general owners' discussion)

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pwjazz

pwjazz

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The problem with using Viper is this limits you to Android's sub-par audio system, which is 16-bit and resamples audio to 48khz using a low quality algorithm (though something like Neutron can partially work around this with its own internal resampling).

As far as dedicated DAP use goes, just using Neutron with the "display player UI on lock screen" option enabled is rather fantastic. You can use the entire app without unlocking the phone, and it supports outputting bit perfect to the internal hi res dac as well as any usb devices.

Run Neutron and Viper and you get to have audiophile playback of your files from Neutron and still get to apply EQ to your streaming services, You Tube, etc. Neutron has an option to disable system effects which will bypass Viper. I do this and just use the same EQ preset in Neutron and viper
 

Degru

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Run Neutron and Viper and you get to have audiophile playback of your files from Neutron and still get to apply EQ to your streaming services, You Tube, etc. Neutron has an option to disable system effects which will bypass Viper. I do this and just use the same EQ preset in Neutron and viper
Ah, silly me. Using both at once never crossed my mind.
 

JustPoo

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If I were to use the impedance adaptor trick to put it in high impedance mode, does anyone know the max millwatts I could expect to be able to get out of it with a 20ohm load (Tin P1s)?
 

Count Arthur

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I'm using USB Audio Player PRO on my V20: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro&hl=en_GB

It plays my lossless WAV files bit perfect at 16-bit/44.1khz.

Features:
• Plays wav/flac/ogg/mp3/MQA/DSD/SACD/aiff/aac/m4a/ape/cue/etc. files (even 24-bit and 32-bit).
• Supports a USB audio DAC connected by an OTG cable (if your Android device supports USB host mode)
• Plays natively up to 32-bit/384kHz or any other rate/resolution your USB DAC supports by completely bypassing the Android audio system. Other Android players are limited to 16-bit/48kHz, even on Android 5 and higher.
Utilizes HiRes audio chips found on some high-end phones (LG V10 to V40, Samsung S6 to S9, OnePlus, Fiio X5/X7, Pioneer XDP, etc.) to play HiRes audio at 24-bit without resampling! Bypasses the Android resampling limits!
• Free MQA decoding on the LG V30/V35/V40/G7/G8
• DoP, native DSD and DSD-to-PCM conversion
• Toneboosters MorphIt Mobile: improve the quality of your headphones and simulate over 160 headphone brands and models (in-app purchase required)
• Folder playback
• UPnP/DLNA
• UPnP media renderer and content server
• Network playback (Samba)
• Stream audio from Google Music, Tidal (including Tidal Masters), Qobuz and Shoutcast
• Gapless playback
Bit perfect playback
• Replay gain
• Sample rate conversion (if your DAC doesn't support the audio file's sample rate, it will be converted to a higher sample rate if available or the highest if not available)
• 10-band equalizer
• No root required!
• Software and hardware volume control (when applicable)
• Upsampling (optional)
• Last.fm scrobbling
 

tential

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If I were to use the impedance adaptor trick to put it in high impedance mode, does anyone know the max millwatts I could expect to be able to get out of it with a 20ohm load (Tin P1s)?
Not enough to make tin hifi p1 happy.
I wouldn't use that iem unless I had a topping nx 4 dsd. Hence why mine sits unused. My es100 was maxed out to get OK volume levels. I'm hoping another iem can hit that level of performance without the huge power hog or terrible fit.
 

JustPoo

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I got a BTR5 in the end and it drives them balanced well, has about double the power of the ES100 I think. Considering how much I've put through them with desktop stuff I wasn't sure it'd be enough but they really open up. Daft for an IEM but there you go.

If you want to approach the P1 in terms of detail then I can recommend the Tapes, they have a very different tuning out the box but take really well to tweaks. They're a piece of cake to drive and great in their own right. I do prefer the P1s though, they're something special.

Fit wise I don't have any problems with the P1s, although I use a thicker grippier cable and I guess sticky memory tips don't hurt. And clearly they fit my ears too - that helps! You could try making some custom earplug silicone moulds for them? I now normally keep some O-rings on the stems of my BL-03s to push out the tips, though I've been considering making some moulds. Not full custom thingies, I'd still use tips, but just to keep them firmly in place. I was surprised how easy it was to make good earplugs with one of those kits and I still have most of it left so its worth a shot I guess. What else am I going to use it for?!
 

jae

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Perhaps with the quality of the usb-c dongle jacks these days, those might me a good option combined with similarly priced phones especially for running more demanding headphones. Something like a pixel 2 has the benefit of being able to run the newest android builds, is smaller, etc.
 

tential

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I got a BTR5 in the end and it drives them balanced well, has about double the power of the ES100 I think. Considering how much I've put through them with desktop stuff I wasn't sure it'd be enough but they really open up. Daft for an IEM but there you go.

If you want to approach the P1 in terms of detail then I can recommend the Tapes, they have a very different tuning out the box but take really well to tweaks. They're a piece of cake to drive and great in their own right. I do prefer the P1s though, they're something special.

Fit wise I don't have any problems with the P1s, although I use a thicker grippier cable and I guess sticky memory tips don't hurt. And clearly they fit my ears too - that helps! You could try making some custom earplug silicone moulds for them? I now normally keep some O-rings on the stems of my BL-03s to push out the tips, though I've been considering making some moulds. Not full custom thingies, I'd still use tips, but just to keep them firmly in place. I was surprised how easy it was to make good earplugs with one of those kits and I still have most of it left so its worth a shot I guess. What else am I going to use it for?!
How didn't I see this... Lol

You own the tapes? My coworker got them, I'm about to give her my p1 to test to compare.

How do they compare to the blon 03? Another iem that won't fit my ear.

I'm hoping this thieaudio legacy 3 is for me. That's the style that fits my ear. I just am scared to spend any money now lol. The only thing I've done is invest/save.

Perhaps with the quality of the usb-c dongle jacks these days, those might me a good option combined with similarly priced phones especially for running more demanding headphones. Something like a pixel 2 has the benefit of being able to run the newest android builds, is smaller, etc.
Since phones aren't system wide bit perfect, I prefer to use a music player like the hiby r5 with the dongle,since daps usually measure poorly.

I'd love to see amir test a jail broken one of these lg phones as a dap, but I feel like if I sent one in I'd have to wait 9 months lol.
 

AdamW

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Hey folks! So I just got a V30 to use as a DAC/amp, just wanted to check I have the best settings. I'm using USB Audio Player Pro with 'bit perfect mode' under 'internal high res audio' set to 'when possible', and the 'Hi-Fi Quad Dac' setting in the system settings panel enabled. I think that's right, but wanted to make sure. Thanks!
 

sydneybird11

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Hello. I have a couple of questions, all related to connecting the V20 to a home receiver to play my stored music on my home system.
1. Is it best to use the HiFi Quad DAC of the V20 via the 3.5mm jack into the receiver, or via the USB-C using USB Audio Player Pro? When using the 3.5mm jack, do you have the Android quality limitation and with the USB-C you bypass the Android quality limitation; is that the difference?
2. For fun or retro-quality or maybe it is even better than the DAC of the V20, I would like to use the DACs of my receiver, a vintage Sony DA4ES with "state of the art" DAC, so I would like to feed digital from the USB-C to the coax connector of the receiver. I don't know how to do that and can't find any information on how to extract bits from the USB-C. I bought a Hiby USB-C to 3.5mm cable and then to RCA jack to my coax connector on my receiver and that didn't trigger the V20 to do anything. I used Developer Mode to change from charge to audio for the USB, didn't help. Used Neutron, didn't help. Help please.
3. Is the V20 worth all the trouble in 2020? I would like a DAP for my home system to play off my SD card of my stored CD's. So, CD quality may be all I need, unless my 60 year old ears are really missing something with the hi-res audio files.
4. Has bluetooth come up to HiFi Standard or is streaming over bluetooth still not as good as playing a file on a DAP? If bluetooth is up to snuff, maybe a bluetooth receiver to a digital out (TOS link?) connected to the 17 year old receiver?
Thanks!!
 

Cahudson42

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Is the V20 worth all the trouble in 2020? I would like a DAP for my home system to play off my SD card of my stored CD's. So, CD quality may be all I need...

I can't add anything to your other questions, but as a user of a V20 for about a year, I can give you my subjective opinions (excuse me ASR:):

My V20 is the H910 ATT model. Used strictly as a DAP. No sim, no cell. I use it with Quad DAC enabled via a 3.5mm to dual RCA cable to a Liquid Spark HP amp. HP are HE400i. Music is Amazon Music streaming over WiFi. IMO - works great. Better than previous setup of Fire 7" tablet, USB OTG to D10, to LS. I listen mostly to FLAC 16/44.1 CD quality, and have concluded that is all I need. Today the best price I have seen for a V20 NIB is $150. A year ago, $110. Would I buy again at $150? If I needed the large uSD card capacity, yes.

But if I did not need the uSD capacity? Probably not. I would buy, and have bought, a $30 LG Rebel TracFone instead. (You throw away the sim card and TracFone stuff and simply use it on wifi. Works fine). Why the TracFone? It's because I wanted to add PEQ capability (without a PC) - and I have done that by adding a $110 Qudelix 5k via 3-wire OTG cable USB to LG Rebel. For me, this works great - as I am not bothered by the 32gb uSD card capacity limitation of the LG Rebel.

The Qudelix 5k, with a new balanced cable for my HE400i, has enough 'oomph' to nicely drive my HE400i. But the Qudelix also has a 3.5mm output, so my same 3.5mm>RCA cable can connect it to an amp - my LS, or RX-596, should I wish.

This change gave me the PEQ functionality I did not have with V20>3.5mm>LS previously. Though I could have used the V20 USB with the Qudelix, for $30 I decided to keep the V20 'as is' and use a separate DAP - the LG Rebel.

So - to summarize, I concluded my only V20 'deficiency' was a lack of system-wide PEQ. Otherwise, it was great. If you don't need that, the V20 should be fine - and I believe it's uSD capacity is at least 512gb, maybe more.

In a final opinion, I doubt the 14yo Sony DAC is anywhere near the performance of the V20 Quad DAC, or even the performance of the $30 LG Rebel w Snapdragon WCD9xx. I wouldn't screw with it at all, and go 3.5mm>RCA>Amp Line In - in both LG cases.

Have fun!
 

Degru

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Can confirm that Neutron outputs bit perfect; a while ago I made a 192khz file with an 80khz sine wave and played it through Neutron to a Oneplus 3 with the hi res setting enabled. I was able to record the sine wave in Audacity on my laptop, so it definitely worked. It's also noticeable that it removes the noise floor and artifacts from Android resampler on quiet tracks at lower volumes.
 

sydneybird11

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Thanks Cahudson42. Today I spent a few hours listening to Hans Zimmer and others on my stored CD lossless rips and Tidal Master stream, with the 3.5 mm to RCA into my receiver. It really sounded great. I played with turning the Quad DAC on and off, and in the off, it sounded flat and in the on, the instruments were well placed in the soundstage and brighter and maybe louder. It might be my imagination, but the Tidal Master stream sounded better than my CD lossless rip. I used Neutron as my player. Do you have a player recommendation to be sure that my stored file playback bypasses the Android resampling limitation or anything else that might affect the sound? I am going to need the Liquid Spark for my Monolith by Monoprice M1060 headphones, just not loud enough connected to the V20. Thanks for the Qudelix 5k tip. Never heard of it.
 

Cahudson42

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@sydneybird11

You mentioned not enough V20 'oomph' to drive the 50-ohm M1060..

Are you aware V20 3.5mm has 3 different 3.5mm output modes? Each is triggered by whatever input device impedance they are feeding. The first, and lowest output, is 0.5v when an approx 32-50ohm load is detected. Fine for IEMs, not so hot for M1060. The second next higher 1v output is a 'line out' - set when the +1k or higher input impedance of a typical amp (like the LS) is detected. The 3rd and highest 2v output is set when the mis-nomered 'high impedance' is detected - HP of 200 to 600 ohms detected.

You can 'trick' the V20 and set and retain (temporarily until you turn off the V20) to the 2nd and 3rd modes. You need a short 3.5mm male to female extension, and a 200ohm or so 3.5mm 'impedance adapter'.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MTND45R/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FM8GJL4/

Plug extension into V20 3.5mm. Plug impedance adapter into female end of extension. Plug your M1060 into female end of adapter (it will sound terrible,) . Note a headphone icon should display on top, indicating the V20 is in 'high impedance' 2v mode.

Leaving V20 On, remove impedance adapter/M1060 from Extension cable. Do Not remove extension cable from V20. Now plug M1060 into female end of extension cable.

You now 'may' have sufficient 'oomph' for M1060.. But the LS would likely be better, for sure..

Do take a look at the Qudelix though..:)
 
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jmc0369

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I have an LGv20 and BT770 300ohm cans. Was intending to get a tube headphone amp/dac to replace my dated failing headroom amp prior to acquiring the V20. Is there any utility in pairing a V20 with such a DAC/Tube headphone amp? Just bypass the V20's onboard DAC? Thanks, Jon in SanDiego
 

Cahudson42

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The LG V20 Quad DAC, as tested by Amir in the similar G7, measures well. Better than many desktop DACs. There is really no need to replace it. Simply use a 3.5mm to RCA adapter cable to a dedicated HP amp for the BT770.
 

sydneybird11

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Thanks for your suggestions Cahudson42. I still have not found a way to get digital out from the LG V20 to feed an external DAC. You mentioned a 3-wire OTG cable USB for your Rebel. Would that work for the V20? Can you tell me where to get it? I was blaming some streaming sound quality issues, song dependent, on the V20 but they were actually due to poor Master rips on Tidal, or ethernet quality, or WiFi quality, or power cable quality, .... To the point that I got out my CD's again. This hobby can drive you nuts. I asked Santa for a liquid spark; she got it for me.
 

Cahudson42

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I use my V20 currently with a Liquid Spark via 3.5mm to RCA cable. Works great with my new 18ohm HE5XX. Don't know with your BT770, but I would think OK.

I have not used my V20 in USB OTG mode, as I have had no need to. But the OTG Rebel cable would need a USB-C male to female microUSB adapter, as the Rebel is female USB, and the V20 female USB-C.

This cable 'should' work - though I have not tried it:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KPD5S82/

Use the female USB-C for your V20 charger. Use the full size female USB for a cable going to your external DAC.
 
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