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How to stream music from Daphile into KEF LSX

edform

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Let me begin by thanking Michael Forbes for his help in getting this pairing to work.

1. Choose suitable server hardware - I used a Shuttle Fanless Atom Quad-core PC with 4GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. Use a utility like DiskPart to remove all partitions from the disk.

2. Download the latest X86 Daphile iso and write it to a bootable USB stick using a utility like BalenaEtcher.

3. Boot your chosen music server machine on the prepared USB stick and, when it says you can now remove the boot media, do so. Daphile will start and announce its network address on screen. From this point you no longer need a screen or keyboard/mouse.

4. Open a Browser on another machine and feed it the address http://daphile.local; you will see the standard web interface of Daphile. Go to Settings and then down to System Firmware and follow the simple instructions to install the system on the hard disk.

5. When the install is complete, restart the PC - you can use the Shutdown button in the web interface - after a delay, the web interface will come back live.

6. Got to Settings - Advanced Media Server Settings, then to plugins in the menu along the top. Scroll down the list which begins with all the plugins that are already installed and chose UpNP/DLNA Media Interface and tick its little box then, after a delay while it gathers its wits, you can click apply and restart the media server at the prompt - Michael Forbes says this plugin isn't needed to make the LSX speakers work, but I couldn't get them to work until it was loaded. Then do the same thing with the UpNP/DLNA Bridge. It may seem not to work at first, so look at the top to see if it is offering you a later version and load that. Again restart the media server at the prompt.

7. I got a lack of action at this point, so I restarted the whole PC using the Shutdown button, after which, in the bottom right-hand corner of the Audio Player window, the Player list included KEF LSX. I chose it and it worked.

8. Then I discovered that the player would play one track and apparently go on to the next track, but without sound output. Clicking that track and using the play button produced sound. This problem is a function of the UpNP/DNLA Bridge operating method. So I found the settings for the Bridge in Settings - Advanced Media Server Settings - Advanced. At the top of that screen is a pulldown with UpNP/DNLA Bridge at the very bottom. Go to that screen and change the settings as follows...

a. Remove the tick in Start the Bridge and click apply at the bottom. This stops the bridge.
b. In Select Binary choose what you need, I chose Squeeze2upnp-X86-64. Click apply which saves the settings and starts the Bridge again.
c. Stop the Bridge again as in step a.
d. Under Streaming Options go to Gapless and choose FORCE. Then click apply.
e. Stop the Bridge again and under UpNP player audio capabilities chose a suitable Max sample rate - I chose 192,000. Then click apply, check that the Bridge has started and close the settings down.

9. You should now have true gapless output to the KEF LSXs.

10. Enjoy

If anyone has any thoughts about more appropriate settings or better approaches to this problem, please chime in. There are a lot of us clucks out there with KEF LSXs who might like to use Daphile.

Ed Form
 

linuxfan

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edform, I have a suggestion for an alternative configuration, which you might wish to try. First, some background; Daphile is based around LMS - Logitech Media Server, the open source version of SqueezeServer, which was the server back-end for the pioneering SqueezeBox network music device. The UpNP/DLNA Bridge plugin allows LMS to "talk" to DLNA clients, such as your KEF LSX's. And Daphile provides a customised web player interface for this server.

But it may be more technically elegant to configure Daphile as a standalone DLNA server (using the UpNP/DLNA Media Interface plugin) instead of just "translating" DLNA.
Then you can bypass the Daphile controller interface altogether, and instead use a DLNA controller application - my personal favourite for Android is BubbleUPnP. I've been told that LUMIN is good for iOS.
BubbleUPnP's interface is more basic that Daphile's, but you may find it preferable.
 
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edform

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edform, I have a suggestion for an alternative configuration, which you might wish to try. First, some background; Daphile is based around LMS - Logitech Media Server, the open source version of SqueezeServer, which was the server back-end for the pioneering SqueezeBox network music device. The UpNP/DLNA Bridge plugin allows LMS to "talk" to DLNA clients, such as your KEF LSX's. And Daphile provides a customised web player interface for this server.

But it may be more technically elegant to configure Daphile as a standalone DLNA server (using the UpNP/DLNA Media Interface plugin) instead of just "translating" DLNA.
Then you can bypass the Daphile controller interface altogether, and instead use a DLNA controller application - my personal favourite for Android is BubbleUPnP. I've been told that LUMIN is good for iOS.
BubbleUPnP's interface is more basic that Daphile's, but you may find it preferable.
Thank you for the suggestion.

I have to confess that I'm out of my depth in this area, largely because I have never learned the terminology, so things like the difference between a Bridge and a Media Interface are tricky territory.

However, I think I might have accidentally done what you suggest - perhaps you can comment?

First - I accidentally loaded the UpNP/DLNA Media Interface plugin before I loaded the UpNP/DNLA Bridge, simply because it was higher up the bewildering list of plugins. Needless to say, it didn't work in the Daphile web interface. Then I spotted my mistake and added the bridge plugin at which point the LSXs were not only discoverable but actually instantly discovered.

Then I began looking for a better interface for Daphile because the web interface is, bluntly, rather crude, with poor graphics and no helper functionality - I've come from a flirtation with Roon!! To my great delight, I discovered iPeng, loaded it onto my iPad Air and struggled with it for about 20 minutes before I found where it hid the available configurations. I chose the LSX speakers and it worked, plus it's a real rival for Roon as far as information-provision and the visual quality of the interface are concerned, which for a one-off payment of £7.99, instead of £10+ per month, I consider quite a bargain - usual disclaimers about axes-to-grind apply.

My halting half-knowledge of this puzzling new world suggests that I may have stumbled upon what you are suggesting and accidentally kicked the start lever into drive. Have I?

Ed Form
 
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tifune

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I have a lot of experience with the LSX. Frankly, the software is insufferable. As nice as they sound/look, the only way I could tolerate using them is Bluetooth or external preamp.

I ran into similar problems as you using Serviio. I used these in my bedroom for awhile. But, i would start a playlist, the first 2 tracks would play, then the next song would start a few hours later and wake me up In middle of the night. No other dlna device I've ever used has this problem.

If you can get them used/discounted, they would make great surrounds except they have huge latency unless in cabled mode and it's one more thing to power on manually because they have no auto sensing capability. I thought I could work around it by plugging everything into 1 power strip, so only 1 switch to flip, but again they won't turn on simply by receiving power. Has to be by remote/app.

Optical in + cabled mode sounds great, but I notice there's some weird limiter when you enable the subwoofer crossover that makes bass transients sound tubby. Have to use external crossover to avoid it. Such a shame, all this could probably be easily fixed with software but with the LSX II about to hit shelves it's probably a lost cause.
 

linuxfan

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My halting half-knowledge of this puzzling new world suggests that I may have stumbled upon what you are suggesting and accidentally kicked the start lever into drive. Have I?
No. But you have set up another configuration, which I was also going to suggest. You are connecting to your Daphile box's LMS server from an LMS/SqueezeServer control app (iPeng), bypassing the Daphile controller interface. The Daphile installation still needs to "translate" its squeezeserver protocol to DLNA protocol (via UpNP/DLNA Bridge plugin) in order to talk to the LSX's.

What I was proposing was to run the Daphile server in DLNA mode, then use a DLNA controller application.

The difference really comes down to available choices of controller app, either from the squeezeserver family, or DLNA family. I must say that the DLNA controller apps I have seen have been nothing more than OK, not great, so you may be on a winner by sticking with the squeezeserver family of apps.
 
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edform

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I have a lot of experience with the LSX. Frankly, the software is insufferable. As nice as they sound/look, the only way I could tolerate using them is Bluetooth or external preamp.

I ran into similar problems as you using Serviio. I used these in my bedroom for awhile. But, i would start a playlist, the first 2 tracks would play, then the next song would start a few hours later and wake me up In middle of the night. No other dlna device I've ever used has this problem.

If you can get them used/discounted, they would make great surrounds except they have huge latency unless in cabled mode and it's one more thing to power on manually because they have no auto sensing capability. I thought I could work around it by plugging everything into 1 power strip, so only 1 switch to flip, but again they won't turn on simply by receiving power. Has to be by remote/app.

Optical in + cabled mode sounds great, but I notice there's some weird limiter when you enable the subwoofer crossover that makes bass transients sound tubby. Have to use external crossover to avoid it. Such a shame, all this could probably be easily fixed with software but with the LSX II about to hit shelves it's probably a lost cause.
I agree about the KEF software, it's a very bad joke. But my experience cannot be said to be as bad as yours.

The speakers do sound good and they do auto-detect signals and switch between inputs - all except for the optical input which does not auto-detect. As I use my LSXs for both HiFi and our television, this is immensely frustrating, but I can tell Daphile to play some music and the LSXs switch on, or switch away from the optical input, and play begins without hassle.

Third-party software like Roon [and now Daphile] remove all need to use the ridiculously-inadequate KEF Stream application.

Two further comments...

Why KEF did not provide a USB input is a complete mystery - it's just point-blank dumb.

I'll also add a comment on the construction of the speaker - its cabinet walls vibrate like drumskins - enough to be detectable with the finger tips, and the effect this has on imaging is really severe - as adding 3 large G-clamps showed. Couldn't get away with that in the lounge, however; the wife went berserk after 24 hours :mad:. I've designed a set of clamps to hold the side walls and the top still - they will be part of my stands. Just waiting for the laser cutting company to chop the parts out of thick steel.

Ed Form
 
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edform

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No. But you have set up another configuration, which I was also going to suggest. You are connecting to your Daphile box's LMS server from an LMS/SqueezeServer control app (iPeng), bypassing the Daphile controller interface. The Daphile installation still needs to "translate" its squeezeserver protocol to DLNA protocol (via UpNP/DLNA Bridge plugin) in order to talk to the LSX's.

What I was proposing was to run the Daphile server in DLNA mode, then use a DLNA controller application.

The difference really comes down to available choices of controller app, either from the squeezeserver family, or DLNA family. I must say that the DLNA controller apps I have seen have been nothing more than OK, not great, so you may be on a winner by sticking with the squeezeserver family of apps.
I don't know how to run the Daphile in DNLA mode - any chance of a brief howto? No problem if you don't have the time; I am pretty stoked with the results I'm getting at the moment.

Best Regards

Ed Form
 

linuxfan

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Well I can tell you the theory, but I haven't tried it, myself; all you should need to do is install and enable the UpNP/DLNA Media Interface plugin - which you have already done. Then maybe (?) disable the UpNP/DLNA Bridge plugin.
Now any DLNA controller app should be able to see your Daphile box as a DLNA server, and of course the DLNA controller app should be able to see your LSX's as a DLNA endpoint. Since you appear to have an Apple device, I believe the best DLNA controller app will be LUMIN.
 
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edform

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Well I can tell you the theory, but I haven't tried it, myself; all you should need to do is install and enable the UpNP/DLNA Media Interface plugin - which you have already done. Then maybe (?) disable the UpNP/DLNA Bridge plugin.
Now any DLNA controller app should be able to see your Daphile box as a DLNA server, and of course the DLNA controller app should be able to see your LSX's as a DLNA endpoint. Since you appear to have an Apple device, I believe the best DLNA controller app will be LUMIN.
Thanks for tips. I installed Lumin on my iPad and found the Daphile server immediately, but I simply could not persuade it to locate the KEFs. I shut off the DNLA bridge as you advised and still Lumin didn't find the speakers.

Never mind, the sound quality and useability of the bridge-connected system is very impressive. I do get some drop-outs where the Daphile server and the iPad won't talk to each other, but I got the same problem with Roon and Volumio, so I suspect my wireless system is a bit weak. I'll get a range extender and see if that helps.

Ed Form
 

linuxfan

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I installed Lumin on my iPad and found the Daphile server immediately, but I simply could not persuade it to locate the KEFs.
I Googled your problem, and apparently LUMIN is only compatible with DLNA endpoints which are Openhome-compliant (a complementary protocol to DLNA). That's probably where the compatibility problem lies.
Before you give up on this idea, I suggest you try a different DLNA controller app - mconnect Player Lite. It's free, though there's a more fully featured paid version.
 
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edform

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I Googled your problem, and apparently LUMIN is only compatible with DLNA endpoints which are Openhome-compliant (a complementary protocol to DLNA). That's probably where the compatibility problem lies.
Before you give up on this idea, I suggest you try a different DLNA controller app - mconnect Player Lite. It's free, though there's a more fully featured paid version.
Interesting! That app found the LSXs in two variations. It looks like it can see both the native DNLA version and the version accessed via the server's DNLA bridge. Neither got the speakers to make a noise!!!

Haven't got time to mess further at this point but will shut down the bridge later and have another go.

Thanks for helping.

Ed Form
 
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edform

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I Googled your problem, and apparently LUMIN is only compatible with DLNA endpoints which are Openhome-compliant (a complementary protocol to DLNA). That's probably where the compatibility problem lies.
Before you give up on this idea, I suggest you try a different DLNA controller app - mconnect Player Lite. It's free, though there's a more fully featured paid version.
I got mconnect player going in a few seconds. It works well.

I also checked out BubbleUpNP on a Samsung tablet I own and it was also a doddle to kick into gear. It was instructive to watch this product go to work because it found various instances of the KEF LSXs but labelled one of them with only its fixed web address, making it clear that this was a direct connection.

So now I understand, and rather like the idea of a UpNP/DNLA core application that can draw music from compliant sources and hand it out to available renderers. Thank you for all the help and advice.

Ed Form
 

linuxfan

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For someone relatively new to the messy world of network audio you have done a good job of setting up different configurations and testing them. Kudos.
Let's just recap your different setups:

1. Daphile with squeezeserver-to-DLNA adaptation (DLNA bridge mode)
a. using native Daphile control interface
b. using iPeng control interface

2. Daphile in DLNA mode
a. using mconnect control interface
b. using BubbleUPnP control interface

now I understand, and rather like the idea of a UpNP/DNLA core application that can draw music from compliant sources and hand it out to available renderers.
Don't be too concerned with the underlying technical model. Just use the configuration which supports your favourite controller gui.
Though it's worth noting that Daphile is squeezeserver-based, so its optimal use will be with a squeezeserver control app.
The other plug-in (UpNP/DLNA Media Interface) permits to use LMS as a UPnP-DLNA server, which may be useful, but in the past, this plug-in had the tendency to slow the LMS indexation.
Since Daphile is adapting LMS to DLNA, bugs like this are no surprise.
If your eventual preference is DLNA, in the long term it may be worthwhile to consider running a true DLNA server app (such as minidlna) on your Linux box instead of Daphile. Unfortunately there is no such Linux distribution which is provided ready-to-run in this manner, as Daphile is. So you may need to skill up with Linux commands to achieve this.

If you're interested to read about my Linux DLNA setup, see here -
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/portable-boombox-with-local-audio-file-playback.370201/
 
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edform

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For someone relatively new to the messy world of network audio you have done a good job of setting up different configurations and testing them. Kudos.
Let's just recap your different setups:

1. Daphile with squeezeserver-to-DLNA adaptation (DLNA bridge mode)
a. using native Daphile control interface
b. using iPeng control interface

2. Daphile in DLNA mode
a. using mconnect control interface
b. using BubbleUPnP control interface


Don't be too concerned with the underlying technical model. Just use the configuration which supports your favourite controller gui.
Though it's worth noting that Daphile is squeezeserver-based, so its optimal use will be with a squeezeserver control app.

Since Daphile is adapting LMS to DLNA, bugs like this are no surprise.
If your eventual preference is DLNA, in the long term it may be worthwhile to consider running a true DLNA server app (such as minidlna) on your Linux box instead of Daphile. Unfortunately there is no such Linux distribution which is provided ready-to-run in this manner, as Daphile is. So you may need to skill up with Linux commands to achieve this.

If you're interested to read about my Linux DLNA setup, see here -
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/portable-boombox-with-local-audio-file-playback.370201/
Thank you for that very informative read.

Considering how much difficulty I had breaking into this world in the first place, largely because of my inability to speak the rather arcane language used by its denizens, I now have an embarrassment of riches.

Some years back I was a regular Linux user but lack of practice has rather dumbed me down, so load-and-fly solutions like Daphile suit me very well. I am well satisfied with the sound quality I am getting, so I will probably stick with what works - although a tendency for the controller software on the tablet and the server to become temporarily disconnected is frustrating. I am addressing this first by improving the network itself and, in particular, the wireless quality, over which the controller tablet communicates - we also get sporadic disconnects with tasks like reading Google news, so poor wireless coverage is the likely culprit.

When all is said and done, however, the improvement I have over the ridiculous KEF Stream app is wonderful. KEF should be ashamed of selling a pair of network loudspeakers at £1000 with software that simply does not work.

Ed Form
 
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