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How to set up 5.0.2 in audyssey with a bass shaker instead of sub?

theonline3333

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I'm in an apartment and cannot get a sub. I have a Denon s760h with emotiva b1+ and c1+ for front LCR with 2 neumi bs5s for surrounds and a couple cheap micca covo-s speakers for atmos going at the tops of the side walls pointed at my chair. I am the only listener. I got some great advice about subs in apartments but ended up deciding that while I know I will be missing out without the sub I want to be a good neighbor. I just ordered a dayton bass shaker and amp to try to get at least some of what I am missing without the sub. I tried searching for an answer on this but I cannot find anything about setting up with audyssey no sub and a shaker. This is for tv/movies not music.

Do I set all my speakers to small or should I set my front L and R bookshelf speakers, which have a range of 48 Hz – 28 kHz (+3/-3 dB), to large instead since I have no sub? I do not want to damage speakers but I also do not plan to play the sound loud.

How do I get around not having a sub hooked up but also being able to use the shaker with the audyssey eq. I heard if you do audyssey without a sub hooked up then add the shaker later the audyssey will be disabled and not work.

I am trying to get everything figured out so that when I get everything tomorrow I have an easier time setting it up. Thanks!
 

alex-z

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In the receiver, set your speakers to small, but set the crossover point at 40-50Hz, rather than the 80Hz you would normally use with a subwoofer. Bass shakers don't work as well up that high. Do this after you run Audyssey, because Audyssey will set the distances for each of your channels.

You can still run a sub in an apartment, but you need to be mindful of the lower frequencies, as they penetrate walls easily. I often recommend the SVS SB-1000 Pro, because you can taper off the output below 50Hz with the "room gain compensation" setting. Audioholics showed this graph in their review.

 

FeddyLost

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I got some great advice about subs in apartments but ended up deciding that while I know I will be missing out without the sub I want to be a good neighbor. I just ordered a dayton bass shaker and amp to try to get at least some of what I am missing without the sub.
The main issue when you want to be a good neighbour is not presence of sub, it's real understanding of possible sound transmission ways.
If your building is concrete, you need to be very cautious with LF vibration sources as they must be effectively decoupled from floor and walls, maybe installed into the main chair and chair is put on some platform. Otherwise it's like hammerdrill in wall connected instead of subwoofer - nothing to be happy with.
IMO 48 [email protected] Db of Emotiva B1 is enough for some entertainment even without sub.
 

fieldcar

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The main issue when you want to be a good neighbour is not presence of sub, it's real understanding of possible sound transmission ways.
If your building is concrete, you need to be very cautious with LF vibration sources as they must be effectively decoupled from floor and walls, maybe installed into the main chair and chair is put on some platform. Otherwise it's like hammerdrill in wall connected instead of subwoofer - nothing to be happy with.
IMO 48 [email protected] Db of Emotiva B1 is enough for some entertainment even without sub.
I'll 2nd this. My buttkicker LFE turns an ordinary sofa into a jackhammer. Decoupling the couch from the floor with oversized rubber feet and mounting the transducer sideways inside the furniture may help from transferring the energy directly into the floor & structure, but these suckers really transfer a lot of energy even down to 5Hz, which is exactly what you need to avoid.

I love these tactile transducers, but you may have been better off getting an svs 1000 series sub with svs's large rubber feet kit and enabling the room gain comp as @alex-z said.

I hope this helps.
 
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theonline3333

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Thanks everyone. I have received some conflicting advice. Some people are telling me to set my front L and R to small with crossover to 50hz and some are telling me to set them large and set center and surrounds to 80hz and atmos to 100hz. Since I do not play the stuff real loud anyway would large be a good idea? Then I could get some of the feeling of the bass while not ideal is better than nothing or would I get that same feeling at crossover 50hz? I did get the aura bass shaker to accompany it.
 

FeddyLost

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Some people are telling me to set my front L and R to small with crossover to 50hz and some are telling me to set them large and set center and surrounds to 80hz and atmos to 100hz.
Most probably with speaker that you have mentioned will be no difference between "large" and "small with crossover at 50 Hz". You can just try different settings with and without shaker.
 

alex-z

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Large would be silly, then none of the low frequency energy would be redirected to the LFE output. Meaning you would pointlessly add more distortion to your speakers, and get less impact from the bass shakers. The LFE channel by itself contains a significant portion of the bass energy, but the other channels still have their own, which you do want redirected.

Bass shakers are not meant to play above 40-50Hz. They are meant to add mechanical impact, if you play them up to 80-100Hz it just starts to sound like buzzing. Additionally, they should be mounted as rigidly as possible to your seating, with a brace if required. If the seating starts to transmit vibration through the floor, use anti-vibration pads. Sorbothane at 50 or 70 duro would do the trick.
 
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theonline3333

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Thank you. That helps me understand better. So then I will plan to set it to small with L and R crossover at 50hz then set the bass shakers to stop at 50hz and 80hz for center and surrounds and 100hz for atmos.
 

fieldcar

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Let us know how the audyssey run works out. I assume setting the speakers to 5.0.2 and leaving the bass shaker off during the tests would be best to avoid correcting what would only be audible and measurable as resonances in the furniture. You probably wouldn't be able to make it past the subwoofer volume check at the beginning of audyssey anyway. Then after the audyssey is completed, you should be able to play around with setting the speakers to 5.1.2 and small then tweaking the crossover like you planned. I'm really curious to hear how it goes. I'll also say that @alex-z is right again with the Sorbothane pads.
 
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theonline3333

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Thanks. If I run audyssey without the bass shaker and no sub plugged in, still set the fronts to 50 crossover and surrounds to 80 etc. if I add the bass shaker after audyssey is done does that disable what audyssey did? I read somewhere that if you add something to it after it disables it.
 

fieldcar

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I read somewhere that if you add something to it after it disables it.
I have an X3700H, but I only remember the same vague notion of this issue. I can't recall if it was for another AVR or Denon's. You should be able to set the MultiEQ mode to OFF and Reference to hear if the correction still applies.
 

sarumbear

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How do I get around not having a sub hooked up but also being able to use the shaker with the audyssey eq.
How can you EQ a shaker, which I assume not a linear FR transducer?
 
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theonline3333

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Thanks. Sorry I don't know much about this stuff. I just cannot have a sub and was wanting to run audyssey but I read somewhere that if you run audyssey without the shaker then add the shaker or any new speaker to it that would disable what audyssey did. I am planning to run my front l and r bookshelfs down at 50hz and have the shaker do 50 and below.
 
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