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How to properly A/B compare speakers? Elac DBR62 vs Infinity R152 vs KEF R3 comparison.

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f1shb0n3

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Fun comparison. I really want Dirac. I've had R3's for a few years and Metas a few months. I highly recommend getting the Metas and adding those to your desktop comparisons. The Metas stay on my desk roughly 3'10" equilateral, R3's in current living room roughly 7.7' equilateral and have had those up to 9' to 12' equilateral in larger living rooms. R3's in midfield/farfield properly placed have incredible soundstage/imaging.
Btw you can get a Dirac Live trial for PC or Mac to check it out. It's really good, can't do anything close to it with REW.

I can confirm stepping back to equilateral triangle listening position makes R3 fully shine in terms of imaging and soundstage. Although not my primary position, I use it occasionally for "critical listening".

What are the most important benefits of the Metas vs R3 in your experience?
 

Ataraxia

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Btw you can get a Dirac Live trial for PC or Mac to check it out. It's really good, can't do anything close to it with REW.

I can confirm stepping back to equilateral triangle listening position makes R3 fully shine in terms of imaging and soundstage. Although not my primary position, I use it occasionally for "critical listening".

What are the most important benefits of the Metas vs R3 in your experience?

I'd say the biggest difference is Metas can disappear better than the R3's. On the other hand the R3's will give a much bigger sense of scale at 7' plus distance equilateral triangle. They compare to floor standers where Metas alone cannot.

The soundstage will be bigger with R3's, and more in plane with Metas due to all frequencies originating point source, rather than 400 hz and below originating from the woofer of the R3's.
 

Ataraxia

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@Ataraxia what can You say about r3 vs ls50 im midfield?

Roughly 7.5' or less Metas, greater than that R3's.

Both can be used interchangeably but that would be ideal.

I have tons of impressions and pics in these two discussions.


 
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f1shb0n3

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Lazy Susans setup is ready - gave it a spin and turned out well!
Picture:
DBR62 vs R3 on lazy susan.png

With one hand I can rotate it and switch between R3 and DBR62 in the exact same position besides my monitor. Switching a Dirac profile takes about 5 seconds and in that time I can switch the speaker with the switch and turn both speakers. Pretty neat! For anyone considering to do that get a stable lazy susan or mod yourself one with more stable platform turning hardware otherwise you risk your speakers going on the floor.

Found another cool benefit of the rotating platform - tied a couple of strings on each side for the IsoAcoustic stand legs and using them I can rotate it from a distance, changing the toe-in angle of the speakers. Using that I was able to experiment and find the ideal angle where the balance was between a wide soundstage (when rotated outwards) and depth/coherence of the soundstage (when rotated closer to listening axis).

Tried stuffing the ports of R3 and here's how the Dirac calibration looks like with ports stuffed completely:
Dirac R3 stuffed ports.png
The big bump from 30-50Hz in the previous measurement is gone now, apparently it was all from the port plus boundary reinforcement from the wall 10 inches behind the speaker. I like how my Dirac calibration is only from 60Hz upwards and the port affecting mostly under that it means I can use it ported or stuffed without recalibrating based on preference. Listening to it ported I'm really doubting if my subs will add much. Integrating subs will be next though and I will use R3 stuffed as the sub will do the 30-50Hz range and the port won't be needed.

Now that I have a "good enough" speaker, I was tempted and got into another comparison that I've always wanted to do - between amplifiers. I've hooked March Audio P452 and Buckeye NC502MP on the switch playing on R3. Let's say the results are surprising to me :) More amplifiers will be joining the comparison - AIYIMA A07 and an Onkyo TX-NR737 AVR with 125W class A amps. Will post a separate thread for that.
 
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f1shb0n3

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KEF R3 with stuffed ports vs open ports, unprocessed signal, in-room response from listening position:
R3 Stuffed vs Unstuffed.png
 
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f1shb0n3

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@f1shb0n3 were three difference? Dont make us wait...
Did a few comparisons of DBR62 vs R3 on the rotating platform, but using the calibration from AB AB setup which sounded fine.
All my observation from AB AB comparison were translated perfectly to when comparing them in the same place. It's just the soundstage is in the exact sample place in front of me where it needs to be. It will allow me to further dive deeper into differences between the speakers. The pulling strings to adjust toe-in are a godsend revelation let me tell you. Now I want remotely controllable rotating platforms with presets. With one button switch of speakers and Dirac profiles. With acoustic curtains in front of it. With randomization. Harman's near-field speaker lab on my desk.
My greed is endless.
 
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f1shb0n3

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@f1shb0n3 were three difference? Dont make us wait...
If you are asking about the amplifiers - I think the treble rolloff of NC502MP seen on the graph from Amir's review is very audible. It's not a big rolloff and at high frequencies, so I'm surprised I can hear it at all. Still working on making sure it's not bias and will compare other amps, so withholding any judgement. Can roll-off be fixed with PEQ for example? Probably, will try it and explain in a separate thread. It's a fun topic.
 

dasdoing

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Lazy Susans setup is ready - gave it a spin and turned out well!
Picture:
View attachment 181216

With one hand I can rotate it and switch between R3 and DBR62 in the exact same position besides my monitor. Switching a Dirac profile takes about 5 seconds and in that time I can switch the speaker with the switch and turn both speakers. Pretty neat! For anyone considering to do that get a stable lazy susan or mod yourself one with more stable platform turning hardware otherwise you risk your speakers going on the floor.

Found another cool benefit of the rotating platform - tied a couple of strings on each side for the IsoAcoustic stand legs and using them I can rotate it from a distance, changing the toe-in angle of the speakers. Using that I was able to experiment and find the ideal angle where the balance was between a wide soundstage (when rotated outwards) and depth/coherence of the soundstage (when rotated closer to listening axis).

Tried stuffing the ports of R3 and here's how the Dirac calibration looks like with ports stuffed completely:
View attachment 181214
The big bump from 30-50Hz in the previous measurement is gone now, apparently it was all from the port plus boundary reinforcement from the wall 10 inches behind the speaker. I like how my Dirac calibration is only from 60Hz upwards and the port affecting mostly under that it means I can use it ported or stuffed without recalibrating based on preference. Listening to it ported I'm really doubting if my subs will add much. Integrating subs will be next though and I will use R3 stuffed as the sub will do the 30-50Hz range and the port won't be needed.

Now that I have a "good enough" speaker, I was tempted and got into another comparison that I've always wanted to do - between amplifiers. I've hooked March Audio P452 and Buckeye NC502MP on the switch playing on R3. Let's say the results are surprising to me :) More amplifiers will be joining the comparison - AIYIMA A07 and an Onkyo TX-NR737 AVR with 125W class A amps. Will post a separate thread for that.

wow. that is nice
 

3125b

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Ataraxia

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They're not small, but not huge either: https://comparesizes.com/comparison/KEF-R3-vs-Kali-LP6-v2-vs-Adam-T8V-vs-Elac-DBR62/1644443760350
Certainly larger than the DBR62, but still somewhere between typical 6.5" and 8" monitors if height isn't much of a concern. Probably too large on most desks but perfectly fine with stands next to a desk.
The R3 on a desk are massive :eek:
For reference here are Metas and R3's on an IKEA Gerton desktop at 29.5"x61".
LS50MetaIso.JPG
R3onDesk.JPG
KEF's.JPG
 

jonfitch

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One of the youtube channels uses motorized speaker stands and then stacks the speakers on top of each other. All you have to do is adjust height.
 

maverickronin

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If you get a big enough desk they start to look small.

Finally finished my custom desk project which I've been working on forever and a half.

tmSSwTN.jpg


RME ADI-2 DAC > Aiyima A07 (Waiting on a Buckeye NC252MP) > KEF R3 (Upside down on K&M 26774 monitor stands)

Plus a bunch of headphones which aren't pictured.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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Just to keep the tweeters closer to ear level. I like my chair low and my monitors high so the Uni-Q would be well above ear level otherwise.
I guess because the uniq have a very good vertical and horizontal dispersion having the uniq below or above ear level doesn't affect too much, i have my uniq below my ears
 
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