How to position your speakers perfectly?

[raindance]

Agreed, which is why measurements should be used for confirmation. It can give you a good starting point.

 

[Buster]

I am overwhelmed with all this good advice. Thank you all and please keep the suggestions coming.

 

[RayDunzl]

To find the exact centerline or sweetest sweet spot laterally between the speakers...

Take long piece of non-stretchy string - a couple of feet longer than the speaker to listening position to other speaker distance.

Tie loops in each end

Hook the loops over some object, pull the string tight, and tie a loop at the center.

Hook the end loops under the speaker spikes/footers/whatever, and pull the string tight at the listening position.

If it is too long (should be a little too long), hold the center loop in one hand, and slide the other hand down the string, squeezing the two lenghts together, to shorten the equal lengths.

Move your nose to the center of the taught string, and that's the physical centerline of an isosceles triangle, and assists with setting toe equally by eyeball.

If the center is not where you want it to be, move a speaker a little to adjust.

Whether or not it is the acoustic center with your room and gear, is another issue.

---

In my setup, the center is about two inches right of where I thought it would be after carefully measuring and all that. Room walls aren't necessarily square.

The same tool can be used to quickly position a measurement mic for single position measures, before fine tuning with a left/right impulse response comparison .

 

[Buster]

There is also room correction software like sonarworks;
free trial; https://www.sonarworks.com/referenc...TUN0POqjF8fu8SkFQuxoCrpgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

and a
review here

but I guess that has to be applied after speaker placement

 

[audiophile]

Cardas method worked brilliantly for my small bookshelves (KEF LS50s)

 

[TLEDDY]

I guess I am a primitive.

I set up systems for myself and others. My starting point is always the same - an equilateral triangle, measured from the center of the speakers to the head position in the listening position. If possible, on the same plane vertically with the mid/highs for cones... for planars, same idea for the radiating area. I use a tape measure to insure accuracy.

After that, move the triangle, maintaining the relationship around the room depending on dimensions. Then play with toe - in and tilt.

Give plenty of time when adjusting to LISTEN!

The most difficult problem I encounter is WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).

People laugh at me - until they hear the results. Even “crap” Sears/Penney’s/Best Buy combos from Bangladesh can sound stupid better.

 

[Daverz]

My approach when setting up speakers in a room is to start out with a stereo opening angle of 46 ° for the speakers. This is based on the fact that we (humans) perceive a local minimum of cross correlation between left and right around that angle. This means that we (theoretically) have maximum aural separation between left and right when sound arrives from a 23 ° angle on each side.

This can easily be achieved by taking the distance between your speakers, X, and use X*1,18 as your distance from the speakers to your listening position.

Like this:
View attachment 38885

Interesting. So the cross correlation will increase with a larger angle or is this just one local minimum?

BTW, a line to the center point that is 1.18 times the speaker separation corresponds to a speaker to ear distance of 1.28 times the speaker separation (or roughly 3:2). Easier to measure.

A bonus tip is to include your coffee table in the "speaker positioning". Place a mirror on top of it, and make sure that you don't see the loudspeaker drivers from the listening position. This is to not allow that reflection reaching your ears close in time to the direct sound.
.

Excellent tip.

 

[Wes]

what about open floor plan rooms?

what about dipole radiators?

 

[Berwhale]

what about open floor plan rooms?

what about dipole radiators?

And what about the WAF? I have no hope of achieving any of this untill I convert half my garage into a new study to work from home.

 

[ernestcarl]

I guess I am a primitive.

I set up systems for myself and others. My starting point is always the same - an equilateral triangle, measured from the center of the speakers to the head position in the listening position. If possible, on the same plane vertically with the mid/highs for cones... for planars, same idea for the radiating area. I use a tape measure to insure accuracy.

After that, move the triangle, maintaining the relationship around the room depending on dimensions. Then play with toe - in and tilt.

Give plenty of time when adjusting to LISTEN!

The most difficult problem I encounter is WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).

People laugh at me - until they hear the results. Even “crap” Sears/Penney’s/Best Buy combos from Bangladesh can sound stupid better.

I suggest to just use a laser distance meter. Much faster. Also, there are apps and templates (e.g. Neumann monitor angles template) that help with setting your angles right, e.g. KRK Audio Tools

 

[restorer-john]

Hook the loops over some object, pull the string tight, and tie a loop at the center.

Hook the end loops under the speaker spikes/footers/whatever, and pull the string tight at the listening position.

If it is too long (should be a little too long), hold the center loop in one hand, and slide the other hand down the string, squeezing the two lenghts together, to shorten the equal lengths.

Move your nose to the center of the taught string, and that's the physical centerline of an isosceles triangle, and assists with setting toe equally by eyeball.

Like this?

How do I set my toe again? With my eyeballs? Which one? One is tied up with string.

 

[Doodski]

I'm pretty comfortable in sofa with a ~equilateral triangle setup with a pair of sound absorbing acoustic damping office panels directly at the wall behind me. But then I like big horns for midrange and lotsa power for the tweeters; I like treble and snappy snares with sizzling horn sections and female voice harmonies.

 

[dejv]

Interesting. So the cross correlation will increase with a larger angle or is this just one local minimum?

BTW, a line to the center point that is 1.18 times the speaker separation corresponds to a speaker to ear distance of 1.28 times the speaker separation (or roughly 3:2). Easier to measure.


Excellent tip.

Sorry for my late response Daverz, but that's a good addition!

First, I shall mention that I have not really studied this effect myself, other than practical tests that have given me proof that the theory works. The theory is called IACC - Interaural Cross Correlation, and is discussed in "Sound reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms" by Floyd E. Toole among other sources.

But yes, this is only a local minimum. The cross correlation will start to increase again at a larger angle, and then reach another minimum when the opening angle reaches around 60° (if I recall). After that it will increase to a theoretical 1 when the sound source reaches 180°. I can't find the right graph now, but this one (B - dashed) seems to be a similar one from Yoichi Ando:

Edit: The graph I was thinking of can be found on chapter 7, page 106 in the Toole book, but IACC is stated as "Spaciousness index".

By the way, a fine tweak for the coffe table is to also make sure that you place the table on a floor space where you have a direct reflection from your loudspeakers (use the mirror again), but still don't "see" them on the table surface.

 

[Daverz]

Sorry for my late response Daverz, but that's a good addition!

First, I shall mention that I have not really studied this effect myself, other than practical tests that have given me proof that the theory works. The theory is called IACC - Interaural Cross Correlation, and is discussed in "Sound reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms" by Floyd E. Toole among other sources.

But yes, this is only a local minimum. The cross correlation will start to increase again at a larger angle, and then reach another minimum when the opening angle reaches around 60° (if I recall). After that it will increase to a theoretical 1 when the sound source reaches 180°. I can't find the right graph now, but this one (B - dashed) seems to be a similar one from Yoichi Ando:

Edit: The graph I was thinking of can be found on chapter 7, page 106 in the Toole book, but IACC is stated as "Spaciousness index".

By the way, a fine tweak for the coffe table is to also make sure that you place the table on a floor space where you have a direct reflection from your loudspeakers (use the mirror again), but still don't "see" them on the table surface.

Thanks for the reply. I suppose I need to buy that 3rd edition of Floyd's book.

I misstated the ratio as 3:2. It's more like 9:7, which seems like a fairly common setup (speakers 7 feet apart and 9 feet from ear to speaker.)

 

[Daverz]

Sorry for my late response Daverz, but that's a good addition!

First, I shall mention that I have not really studied this effect myself, other than practical tests that have given me proof that the theory works. The theory is called IACC - Interaural Cross Correlation, and is discussed in "Sound reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms" by Floyd E. Toole among other sources.

Looking at the plots in my first edition Toole, it looks like the angle is a reflection angle, not the angle in the listener-speaker triangle, so it depends on where the side walls are in relation to the speakers and listener.

 

[JW001]

This works for me:

http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/monitoring.htm

I don't know... Here is what the guy writes in the above link in the "Cables" section:

"Remember too that cables are directional. Sometimes this is because the connections differ at each end (some designs leave "ground" unconnected at one end to minimize noise transfer). Even if the connections are the same at both ends, all cables will become directional once they've been used long enough to break-in."

Ha!

 

[Hipper]

I don't know... Here is what the guy writes in the above link in the "Cables" section:

"Remember too that cables are directional. Sometimes this is because the connections differ at each end (some designs leave "ground" unconnected at one end to minimize noise transfer). Even if the connections are the same at both ends, all cables will become directional once they've been used long enough to break-in."

Ha!

Nobody's perfect!

I've found his positioning and anti-vibration advice useful.

 

[Buster]

I am overwhelmed with all this good advice. Thank you all and please keep the suggestions coming.

I repeat myself but in these times this is a way too keep yourself busy inside the house!

 

[A800]

I stack 4 hybrid horn PA subs to a nice 1.80m/5.9ft. tower in the middle of the room.
Then connect them to a lousy 20 watt amp just for fun.
Good enough for me.

 

[Buster]

I stack 4 hybrid horn PA subs to a nice 1.80m/5.9ft. tower in the middle of the room.
Then connect them to a lousy 20 watt amp just for fun.
Good enough for me.

Wow!