How to loop jriver MC into RME Fireface using ASIO?

[markstein]

Hi,

I try to - so far unsuccessfully - loop jriver Media Center into RME Fireface using ASIO. Conditions are as follows:

- Win 10 PC with jRiver MC 35 and latest RME Madiface ASIO driver.
- RME Fireface UFX II synced to 48kHz sample rate
- Input signal AES/EBU stereo (input channels 13-14)
- Software output shall be into channels 01-02

Fireface ASIO is set as output device in jRiver MC and internal playback works well.

If I open ASIO live input, however, the software freezes (Fireface, 48kHz SR, channel count 2, channel offset 12). Audio input does not work.

The RME ASIO driver supports multi client operation, so it should work.

Anybody has an idea what could be the root cause for my issue and how to resolve it?

 

[3ll3d00d]

It should work but doesn't because there is something not entirely in agreement about rme multiclient support and how jriver works

Only known solution iirc is using the multiclient bridge but that is 32bit only last I checked, maybe vbaudio would work as another intermediary

It's a semi regular question in their forum btw (has been for many years). I would think they think it's a rme issue given other devices (eg MOTU) do work and rme might say the same about jriver.

 

[markstein]

It should work but doesn't because there is something not entirely in agreement about rme multiclient support and how jriver works

Only known solution iirc is using the multiclient bridge but that is 32bit only last I checked, maybe vbaudio would work as another intermediary

It's a semi regular question in their forum btw (has been for many years). I would think they think it's a rme issue given other devices (eg MOTU) do work and rme might say the same about jriver.

Thank you for your fast reply


I remember that this issue was discussed in the past but hoped it was resolved in the meantime by jriver...

What is the multiclient bridge?

 

[3ll3d00d]

It's v old, no idea if it works on modern windows tbh

It used to be hosted by Steinberg somewhere but Looks like it is now at http://www.vidance.com/asiomulti/

 

[markstein]

Is there no one here who somehow got such a setup to work without using additional software like an ASIO multiclient bridge?

 

[3ll3d00d]

I went back through some old threads and was reminded it worked at one point then broke and then was fixed here

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130149.0.html

If it's not broken again then worth reporting over there (I no longer have any rme hw so can't test it myself)

 

[markstein]

Thank you. The issue Peter Schelbert reported back then is exactly the issue I am experiencimg right now. Will post in the Jriver forum.

 

[markstein]

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130149.0.html

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,140967.msg977965.html#msg977965

 

[Keith_W]

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130149.0.html

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,140967.msg977965.html#msg977965

mattkhan = 3ll3d00d

Amfibius = me.

 

[markstein]

mattkhan = 3ll3d00d

Amfibius = me.

Oh, I did not know this. Thanks for clarifying.

Did you finally manage to get this solution working?

Possible (but not nice und somewhat unsatisfactory) workaround: use Acourate Concolver ASIO as output device in jRiver MC, set 1:1 filters and route Acourate Concolver output back into TotalMix. So, in this case, Acourate Concolver would act as my ASIO multiclient bridge. Not sure about the latency this additional step introduces...

 

[john61ct]

Some software may not by default intercept standard ASIO signals, need to configure WDM settings in the RME Driver, might be under "ASIO Fireface USB" -> Settings Control Panel

map ASIO channels to assignable Windows stereo pairs

 

[markstein]

Some software may not by default intercept standard ASIO signals, need to configure WDM settings in the RME Driver, might be under "ASIO Fireface USB" -> Settings Control Panel

map ASIO channels to assignable Windows stereo pairs

Jriver MC generally is ASIO capable, but obviously buggy as - at least with RME drivers - the multiclient usage does not work reliably.

I do not want to use WDM as this goes through the Windows sound engine.

 

[Keith_W]

Did you finally manage to get this solution working?

No!!

I gave up. I complained in JRiver's forum, and RME's forum. As you saw in that thread, the devs didn't even bother replying. And from memory, RME blamed JRiver. I don't know whose fault it is. The RME works faultlessly with all other convolvers I have tried (Hang Loose and Acourate Convolver), and from reports it appears that JRiver works faultlessly with other sound cards (the Lynx that mitchco uses and many Motu users). It's just the JRiver-RME combo that doesn't work, and only for this specific feature.

Possible (but not nice und somewhat unsatisfactory) workaround: use Acourate Concolver ASIO as output device in jRiver MC, set 1:1 filters and route Acourate Concolver output back into TotalMix. So, in this case, Acourate Concolver would act as my ASIO multiclient bridge. Not sure about the latency this additional step introduces...

Why do you want to take input from the sound card? For me, I wanted sound card input for measurement purposes. Since REW has no built-in convolver, I have to send everything through Acourate Convolver. That involved some complicated loopback shenanigans. It was a complete pain in the ass, but I managed to figure it out.

It went something like this:

REW --> output to RME ADAT5/6. Input from AN1 (microphone)
RME: ADAT5/6 IN loopback to ADAT5/6 OUT
Acourate Convolver: input from ADAT5/6, output back to RME AN1-8.

 

[john61ct]

Linux. RPi even. Does not mean making it your player, can be just standalone DSP.

All the Firefaces work well with Linux except the UC

 

[markstein]

No!!

I gave up. I complained in JRiver's forum, and RME's forum. As you saw in that thread, the devs didn't even bother replying.

Very disappointing. Jriver is very inexpensive, but still...

Why do you want to take input from the sound card?

I am (mis)using my RME ADI-2 Pro FS and Fireface UFX II as follows:
- ADI-2 is my input selector, volume controller incl. loudness, bass/treble EQ, headphone amp.
- All audio is transferred via AES/EBU to the Fireface.
- When I still had my KH310 and 2x KH810 I used the Fireface as x-over and DSP (RME room eq).
- Now, with my new Ascilab C8C, the plan was to sell both KH810s and the Fireface and be happy. However, the child in me asks "why don't you just try Dirac ART PC version and decide whether it is worth the expense?
- Us case would then be to install Dirac ART VST3 Plugin in jriver MC and loop jriver between Fireface in- and output as an external DSP.

In the end, I might just try Dirac PC using playback out of jriver and - if I like what it does, buy a Denon AVR, sell my RME stuff and be done. The perfectionist in me, however, does not like such an AVR solution at all...

 

[markstein]

Linux. RPi even. Does not mean making it your player, can be just standalone DSP.

All the Firefaces work well with Linux except the UC

I want to use the setup for Dirac ART which seems to be not available for Linux. You also cannot export the ART filters into other convolvers.

 

[3ll3d00d]

I would try their wdm driver in exclusive mode or their wasapi loopback (also exclusive) or I would use vbaudio matrix as the bridge

Alternatively just do enough listening in jriver alone in order to know whether you need to bother going further with any of it

 

[Keith_W]

- Us case would then be to install Dirac ART VST3 Plugin in jriver MC and loop jriver between Fireface in- and output as an external DSP.

I see. If you need a VST host for testing, I would suggest you use Hang Loose Convolver (14 day free trial) or use a DAW like Reaper. Reaper has a 30 day free trial, but in reality it never expires. It just starts nagging you frequently after 30 days.

 

[markstein]

For the moment I give up to try a ASIO loop through jriver MC. Just does not work. Also using WASAPI input shows exactly the same issues (input message freezes, then jRiver hangs or crashes).

For simple ASIO loop in a VST plugin I found the free software Cantabile Lite which is very easy to setup and works.

Did not try it with the Dirac ART VST3 plugin yet, this will be the next step.

 

[dziemian]

How about this asio driver?

LufiaASIO — High Performance ASIO for Audio & Acoustic

Hi everyone. I am Aspirin, the developer of LufiaASIO. Version 1.2.8 Alpha is my first public preview release. LufiaASIO presents one ASIO device to a Windows host, while allowing the actual input and output backends to be selected independently. The primary use case is an audio or acoustic...

www.audiosciencereview.com