How to know how much SPL do I actually need?

[Fluffy]

I mostly listen to music on headphones these days because of practical constraints, but sometime in the future I would like to invest in a descent stereo system. I realized now after reading around that one of the main issues to consider is how loud do I actually need my system to go. That will affect what power amplifier to buy, what sensitivity of speakers, and of course what the max spl\watt of the speakers should be. Also, I'm concerned about THD issues with speakers, because as SPL go up so do distortions.

I currently have a pair of Yamaha HS8 to assess this with. I do not however have a calibrated SPL meter. What's the best way to measure what should be my goal max SPL for a future system? do I play music to measure this or pink noise? Is there a recommended weighting curve? Suppose I buy an SPL meter, what should I look out for?

 

[solderdude]

There are apps for the phone that can take SPL readings (up to a limit) and SPL meters are cheap on fleabay etc.

Never use white noise with speakers at high SPL you will fry your tweeters.

 

[Daverz]

I would just buy a Umik-1, assuming you have a convenient computer to run REW on.

 

[Sparky]

There are apps for the phone that can take SPL readings (up to a limit) and SPL meters are cheap on fleabay etc.

Never use white noise with speakers at high SPL you will fry your tweeters.

What type of noise do you use? What would I search for on TIDAL if that is my only source?

May seem like a daft question but I genuinely don't know.

 

[LTig]

What type of noise do you use? What would I search for on TIDAL if that is my only source?

May seem like a daft question but I genuinely don't know.

Use pink noise. Install REW and use its generator.

 

[monkeyboy]

I would think Max is the criteria for the amps to prevent clipping. You don't need it super loud on average.

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/PermissibleExposureTime.htm

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm

 

[solderdude]

What type of noise do you use? What would I search for on TIDAL if that is my only source?

May seem like a daft question but I genuinely don't know.

For speakers (which I rarely measure) pink noise from an analyzer, for headphones white noise. That one I built myself and has a BW up to 100kHz.
Using white noise and averaging over several minutes gave me the exact same FR plots as slow sweep ((except slightly noisier of course) so stopped using noise.

 

[MZKM]

Most people are happy with 95dB peaks for music. For movies a bit more.

Roughly, it goes like this:
• +3dB for every doubling of wattage (4W is +6dB over 1W).
• -4dB for every doubling of distance (4m is ~ -8dB over 1m).
• +2dB of room gain for bookshelves, +3dB for towers.

So, if you get bookshelves which are 85dB @1m @2.83V, it’s an 8ohm nominal speaker, and you sit 13ft away, you need +16dB to reach 95dB, so ~40W.

Getting loud enough for music is almost never a concern, it’s movies where it’s more of a concern.

 

[Fluffy]

@MZKM I think that depends on your choice of music

 

[Hipper]

There are many factors that will affect how much power you will need from your amp and speakers.

Amongst them are the size of your room, how far away you will be from your speakers, if you use room treatment. In addition some recordings are quieter then others so need more volume to get the SPL you want.

My view then would be to trial the speakers in your room playing your quieter recorded music and turn it up to a bit louder then you'd ever expect to listen.

I don't think it's as easy as going to a dealer and saying I want to play my music at xxdB and he will recommend some speakers and amp. Typical home listening is between 70-85dB plus some higher peaks. Knowing the SPL is not that important unless you listen at stupidly high levels that could lead to ear damage.

 

[MZKM]

@MZKM I think that depends on your choice of music

Not really, I don’t think I’ve ever gone as high in volume on my amp for music as I have for television, let alone for movies.

 

[Fluffy]

The position of the volume knob doesn't determine the final spl. Usually TV and Films are mixed way lower in volume than music, so it's necessary to raise to volume of the system to achieve similar loudness. I also play movies with my volume knob way past 12 o'clock while most music is played at 10 o'clock or lower, but that’s because the music is often compressed towards 0 dbfs while dialog in movies is somewhere around -15 dbfs.

 

[Soniclife]

I would just buy a Umik-1, assuming you have a convenient computer to run REW on.

Very much this. If you are going to use speakers, this or similar is the best thing you can do.

There is value in tracking loudness using phone apps in a casual way over a long time. It's interesting how some systems sound right at quite different volumes, and how our brains interpret loud differently at different times.

 

[DonH56]

_Peak SPL Calculator

Note the OSHA chart is for industrial guidance and refers essentially to the ability to have a normal conversation at retirement. It is not adequate (IMO) for audiophiles, musicians, and others who really care about their hearing.

 

[KozmoNaut]

The quick response is "well, how loud do you want it to be?"

Most people think 85-90dB SPL is rather loud. A rock concert usually averages around 100-105dB SPL, with peaks sometimes as high as 115-120dB SPL. Everyone should wear earplugs at concerts.

If your speaker has an efficiency of 85dB/1W/1M, and you shoot for 85dB SPL average and 15dB headroom for peaks, you would need around 85-90 watts to hit 100dB SPL peaks at a normal listening position.

 

[Severian]

Rock concert SPL + earplugs at home can be pretty fun for listening to live recordings (best to do this when nobody else is home...). It's nice to have a system that can do it cleanly.

 

[MZKM]

The position of the volume knob doesn't determine the final spl. Usually TV and Films are mixed way lower in volume than music, so it's necessary to raise to volume of the system to achieve similar loudness. I also play movies with my volume knob way past 12 o'clock while most music is played at 10 o'clock or lower, but that’s because the music is often compressed towards 0 dbfs while dialog in movies is somewhere around -15 dbfs.

Right, meaning for most music you don’t need anywhere close to the same amount of wattage for film, as for music most of the content is mixed much closer to full scale.

 

[Fluffy]

Well I guess you need more dynamic range for film, meaning higher headroom. But for music you need constant power, especially for the more compressed kinds. Leaving aside LFE for a moment (since subs usually have their own dedicated amplifier), films tend to have a lower level of continuous loudness than say rock and electronic music. Films also employ less of the spectrum because dialog exists mostly in the mids and sound effects are spurious. Background music can get intense sometimes.

Anyway, in my case I feel I need more average power for music than I do for film.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Interesting calculator here:

https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[DonH56]

Interesting calculator here:

https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Same as the one I linked... My comments on the OSHA guide still apply.

Most any of these can only be a rough estimate -- too many variables in the real world.