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How to Improve my Stereo System?

Guenselmann

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Nov 23, 2020
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Hey all,

for a while now I am using the following chain in my living room, from source to speakers:
Chromecast (Deezer, Spotify, Netflix, Disney+, YouTube, ...)
HDMI into TV
Optical from TV into Topping E30 in pre-amp mode
RCA into AUDIOPHONICS MPA-S250NC (Hypex Ncore NC252MP)
2x Focal Aria 926

I like the usabillity of the Chromecast and want to keep it. The E30 volume is controlled via the Chromecast remote. Still, there are some points I want to improve in my setup:

1. There are annoying pops/crackles when the Chromecast is turned on/off/goes to sleep. I think these are caused by the E30 and quite loud because they get amplified by the amp. Thus, I want to move the E30 back to its original purpose on my desk for headphone use and find a different DAC. The amp has a trigger input, would using this be beneficial?

2. Listening to music is very enjoyable even though I notice some flaws likely related to the room and placement. I think I am sitting too close to the back wall and bass feels a bit exaggerated sometimes as the Arias are also relatively close to the wall, see the attached photos. I have never measured the speaker response in the room, but should probably do so to improve the setup both by tweaking the placement and by applying room EQ.

3. I have a hard time understanding dialogues even at - what I feel are - medium volume and have to adjust it all the time as I don't want to bother my neighbours with explosions at 11 pm. Admittedly, this is my first real speaker system, but I have never had this problem with headphones, which I usually used for watching things. Is this a consequence of how movies are mixed combined with not having a center speaker? I didn't really plan to add additional speakers for now. That's something I would like to do when I move into a bigger place, which could take more than a few years though. I see that most AVRs have some kind of automatic loudness adaptation. Audiophile sacrilege, I know, but does this work well and could help me?

I looked around a bit and found some devices which might solve some of my issues.
The most obvious would be an AVR with room EQ running in pre-amp mode. I might even be able to sell the power amp if the AVR has enough power and doesn't combust due to the Aria's low impedance. However, is this a good investment considering I only need 2 channels (for now), room EQ and some kind of adaptive loudness? AVRs are also really bulky and don't fit into the TV cabinet I bought without thinking ahead. Are there cheaper and more compact solutions for my use case?

I'm a bit lost what to do, so appreciate any tips and pointers you may have. Thanks for reading my long post!
 

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spamilton

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Brother, I feel your pain. I've been trying to find a minimal solution for a stereo home theater for quite some time. Really the only way you are going to get good audio for TV/movies is with an AVR. You need a device that can process the original surround audio and provide room correction. I've tested many times stereo PCM from the TV compared to receiver downmixing. The TV method sounds terrible and there are no adjustments you can make if you are using a simple DAC or integrated amp. Like you, I dislike having a giant receiver that I'm not using 90% of, but it makes a huge difference. You can still boost dialogue frequencies, even without a center. I am currently using a Yamaha RX-A880 and am content with it. I'll probably step up to an HDMI 2.1 receiver next year. I wouldn't worry about the power in that room. It will be plenty loud. Any receiver mid-tier or higher should be fine. You can check out Amir's list for some recommendations, like the Denon X3700H.
 

Wes

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To better the understanding of speech, you can filter out LF and HF, leaving only the freqs. of speech and its near overtones.
 

stevenswall

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Other than upgrading the speakers which is typically the biggest audible improvement, I'd get a MiniDSP for a few reasons:

1. It can get rid of your DAC and shouldn't pop and can take optical from the TV.

2. Room correction can help you tame the bass. Bass peaks where some frequencies are much louder than others makes bass feel slow and boomy. Remove those and it sounds "tight" and "fast".

3. In the future if you add a sub or two the MiniDSP will help with that too... And taming the midbass and bloat will help dialogue clarity. Or you can EQ in some midrange with the MiniDSP.

Note: If the dialogue isn't bad but sounds almost like it's not there, but then sometimes cuts on with a narrator, see if you can tell your AVR/amp to only do stereo. If it's trying to do surround sound, it will push all the dialogue to the center channel which you don't have. You need it to be in stereo mode to mix the center channel into the Right and Left speakers.

Note2: You can also go into your Chromecast settings and disable surround sound. This will also ensure you aren't getting dialogue sent to a missing center channel.
 

mike7877

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A center can help some with dialog clarity, but it's really not necessary. A rug on the floor between the couch and your system would help a tonne with intelligibility. Something on one of the walls to absorb reflected sound too. Your room looks very lively.

If I were you I'd get myself a budget Denon AVR like the 540/750/960, a centre similar to your fronts (same series if possible - if not, at least same driver type/quality and similar voicing). Something with similar timbre but not necessarily as great is needed for the surrounds, especially at first. Also, a speaker switch, and a passive preamp. The passive preamp costs like $80 on Amazon (knobsound).

For music, use your DAC through the passive preamp to your amp (sound quality improves immensely, your mind will melt. Never use digital volume control)

For movies/TV, speaker switch your fronts to the AVR and use it with its excellent dynamic compression at night (and during day) for all the detail you're supposed to hear and would hear if you listened at reference level, without waking others up at night and abusing your ears during the day.

Edit: if a centre similar to your fronts isn't something you're willing to invest in, don't worry too much about losing clarity. With a good pair in the front doing voice, as long as reflected sounds are adequately managed, you won't be missing intelligibility. Voices might sound a little less full than they could, but the words won't be any harder to discern
 
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stevenswall

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A center can help some with dialog clarity, but it's really not necessary.

I don't think this is the case here because a Chromecast can't control the volume when streaming surround sound, but if the OP is lacking a center channel and the receiver is expecting one, it is going to sound broken without one. The difference is absolutely stunning. If it's already configured in Stereo though, no need for a center.
 

Chromatischism

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Hey all,

for a while now I am using the following chain in my living room, from source to speakers:
Chromecast (Deezer, Spotify, Netflix, Disney+, YouTube, ...)
HDMI into TV
Optical from TV into Topping E30 in pre-amp mode
RCA into AUDIOPHONICS MPA-S250NC (Hypex Ncore NC252MP)
2x Focal Aria 926
First of all, good equipment selection.
I like the usabillity of the Chromecast and want to keep it. The E30 volume is controlled via the Chromecast remote. Still, there are some points I want to improve in my setup:

1. There are annoying pops/crackles when the Chromecast is turned on/off/goes to sleep. I think these are caused by the E30 and quite loud because they get amplified by the amp. Thus, I want to move the E30 back to its original purpose on my desk for headphone use and find a different DAC. The amp has a trigger input, would using this be beneficial?
I believe you are right that the pops are coming from the DAC. I've used Chromecasts for at least 7 years and I've not had that issue. However, my Chromecast is never turned off.
2. Listening to music is very enjoyable even though I notice some flaws likely related to the room and placement. I think I am sitting too close to the back wall and bass feels a bit exaggerated sometimes as the Arias are also relatively close to the wall, see the attached photos. I have never measured the speaker response in the room, but should probably do so to improve the setup both by tweaking the placement and by applying room EQ.
You are right, sitting near the back wall will cause bad bass, among other issues. I think getting a UMIK-1 and learning to use Room EQ Wizard will be very valuable. That will help you discover and visualize the issues. The next step is solving them.
3. I have a hard time understanding dialogues even at - what I feel are - medium volume and have to adjust it all the time as I don't want to bother my neighbours with explosions at 11 pm. Admittedly, this is my first real speaker system, but I have never had this problem with headphones, which I usually used for watching things. Is this a consequence of how movies are mixed combined with not having a center speaker? I didn't really plan to add additional speakers for now. That's something I would like to do when I move into a bigger place, which could take more than a few years though. I see that most AVRs have some kind of automatic loudness adaptation. Audiophile sacrilege, I know, but does this work well and could help me?
This is a combination of some movies just not having clear dialogue, and your room reflections. I agree with another poster that you should get a big soft rug for the floor. In addition, I think some nice-looking absorption panels on the walls would help as well. I like GIK Acoustics, but there are many options. Adding a center speaker will not make any noticeable difference here since I think you are dominated by the room.

Compression or Night modes do help with dialogue so it's a legit option. But look at the room first. I can hear very clear dialogue and I never use that feature thanks to carpet and upholstered seats. It's more for consistent volume while others are nearby or sleeping.
I looked around a bit and found some devices which might solve some of my issues.
The most obvious would be an AVR with room EQ running in pre-amp mode. I might even be able to sell the power amp if the AVR has enough power and doesn't combust due to the Aria's low impedance. However, is this a good investment considering I only need 2 channels (for now), room EQ and some kind of adaptive loudness? AVRs are also really bulky and don't fit into the TV cabinet I bought without thinking ahead. Are there cheaper and more compact solutions for my use case?
I have searched high and low and the options are few. Here's one:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rements-of-essence-hdacc-ii-4k-hdmi-dac.7171/

However it does not do EQ, so you would want a MiniDSP for that. By the time you add up the cost, you may as well have gotten a Denon X3000-series AVR. I realize it's big and has more channels than you currently need but maybe you'll flesh out that surround sound more and there aren't any other options anyway. The economics of scale have really made it hard to compete with these do-it-all devices. I personally enjoy the Denon X4000-series remote control quite a bit more, but that's me.

I recommend keeping the excellent NCore amp and connecting it to the front left and right preouts to run your speakers.
 
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Guenselmann

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Thanks for all of your answers!

First of all I checked again to make sure that surround sound is disabled in the Chromecast (and TV). This was already the case.

Absolutely agree that I need to tame the room. I will look into putting some thick rugs in front of the speakers and acoustic panels on the walls. GIK has some nice options, but is also quite pricey. What would be some cheaper alternatives? Should I put panels on the wall where the sofa is only, or also behind the speakers? Maybe this is impossible to answer without doing in-room measurements, so I will get a UMIK-1 and do that. In any case, it should give me some valuable insight, which I am really lacking coming from the headphone world.
 

Thomas_A

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1. Treat the wall behind the speakers with broadband absorbers. It IS possible to do it without looking like a studio.
2. Use a thick rug on the floor.
2. Use room correction for bass below 200 Hz.
 

spamilton

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OP
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Guenselmann

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It is a Panasonic TX40FSW504. Actually not that old, but too small. I will replace it later.
However, that should be irrelevant as I am not using its speakers at all, unless the TV messes up the signal from the Chromecast HDMI to the Optical output?
 

nerone

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Hey all,

for a while now I am using the following chain in my living room, from source to speakers:
Chromecast (Deezer, Spotify, Netflix, Disney+, YouTube, ...)
HDMI into TV
Optical from TV into Topping E30 in pre-amp mode
RCA into AUDIOPHONICS MPA-S250NC (Hypex Ncore NC252MP)
2x Focal Aria 926

I like the usabillity of the Chromecast and want to keep it. The E30 volume is controlled via the Chromecast remote. Still, there are some points I want to improve in my setup:

1. There are annoying pops/crackles when the Chromecast is turned on/off/goes to sleep. I think these are caused by the E30 and quite loud because they get amplified by the amp. Thus, I want to move the E30 back to its original purpose on my desk for headphone use and find a different DAC. The amp has a trigger input, would using this be beneficial?

2. Listening to music is very enjoyable even though I notice some flaws likely related to the room and placement. I think I am sitting too close to the back wall and bass feels a bit exaggerated sometimes as the Arias are also relatively close to the wall, see the attached photos. I have never measured the speaker response in the room, but should probably do so to improve the setup both by tweaking the placement and by applying room EQ.

3. I have a hard time understanding dialogues even at - what I feel are - medium volume and have to adjust it all the time as I don't want to bother my neighbours with explosions at 11 pm. Admittedly, this is my first real speaker system, but I have never had this problem with headphones, which I usually used for watching things. Is this a consequence of how movies are mixed combined with not having a center speaker? I didn't really plan to add additional speakers for now. That's something I would like to do when I move into a bigger place, which could take more than a few years though. I see that most AVRs have some kind of automatic loudness adaptation. Audiophile sacrilege, I know, but does this work well and could help me?

I looked around a bit and found some devices which might solve some of my issues.
The most obvious would be an AVR with room EQ running in pre-amp mode. I might even be able to sell the power amp if the AVR has enough power and doesn't combust due to the Aria's low impedance. However, is this a good investment considering I only need 2 channels (for now), room EQ and some kind of adaptive loudness? AVRs are also really bulky and don't fit into the TV cabinet I bought without thinking ahead. Are there cheaper and more compact solutions for my use case?

I'm a bit lost what to do, so appreciate any tips and pointers you may have. Thanks for reading my long post!
Even my TV optically connected to the Topping E30 sucks vice versa connected from the RCA output directly to the vintage amplifier works fine.
So I assume the problem comes from the dac.
 

goat76

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I don't think you should reach for the equalizer at this early point, that is one of the last steps for fine adjustments after you have found the best possible placement for the whole stereo setup in your room. Do you really need to have everything where you have it now, it doesn't look optimal to have the listening position under that inclined part of the ceiling and that close to the wall, is it possible to move the whole setup to another part of the room? Do you have more pictures of the room or a drawing of the layout?


You should try to find the best distance from the back wall for your speakers where you get a well-balanced sound. Start with large adjustment steps (a foot or two), which makes it easy to hear which position of the two is the best, and from there make smaller and smaller adjustments until you find the right amount of bass that isn't overwhelming the low midrange.

After that, you need to find out which distance between the speakers works best to get a distinct center image. Listen to music with a kick drum and you will hear when you have the center image "locked-in". Fine-tune the phantom center adjusting the distance and the toe-in with some vocal tracks, you will probably hear when it sounds natural, distinct, and clear. In most cases (and with most speakers), your listening position should be positioned in an equilateral triangle with the speakers, and when you find the best sounding distance between the speakers, you will also know where your seating position will be, and that will probably end up in a position with some distance to the wall behind you.

After all the above adjustments you can fine-tune everything with small adjustments of the distance to the wall, the distance between the speakers, and the listening position. This will come after a few days of listening to music and you will know exactly what is needed. And maybe, just maybe you need an equalizer for the final steps. :)


And like others have said, get a large thick rug on the floor and more things in the room, maybe some absorption panels and diffusers (maybe just more furniture). The better ordinary speech sounds when you have normal conversations, the better the sound system will sound in your room.
 

Dj7675

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When adding video to the equation, things get a bit trickier for sure. I went through several options in our living room and finally ended up with an NAD M10. It works very well.
-It is probably too expensive for what it is
-Small/Compact
-Nice screen
-Dirac room correction
-Switches easily between music/tv/streaming
I didn’t want a receiver in our living room 2.0 setup due to the size but receivers with eq really are a good value.
In my opinion you are going to need to figure out how to EQ the bass. Sometimes there is just so much bass it can make dialogue hard to understand. Also, to really know what is going on, investing in a MIC and learning how to measure with something like REW is the most important thing IMO.
 
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Guenselmann

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I attached another image showing the "living room" area from a bit more distance. It is in fact a fairly large room which also includes kitchen, table, and desk. If you look at the couch again in the other picture I lay on the long part 99% of the time, which is actually not under the slope, but below that wooden beam. That also means my stereo triangle is currently messed up. This looks more extreme than it is, but you get the idea:

1629900762008.png


My plan was to pull the TV and speakers closer into the room and then shift the whole thing to the right. I will see what I can do and report back on that front. Should add that I haven't lived here for long and decorations have never been my priority, so it all looks a bit empty still. For example. I want to get some plants in front of those large windows.
 

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hmt

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1. Treat the wall behind the speakers with broadband absorbers. It IS possible to do it without looking like a studio.
2. Use a thick rug on the floor.
2. Use room correction for bass below 200 Hz.

Plus maybe pull out the sofa a bit. Even 0.5 ft would help.
 

Beershaun

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Room correction will be your biggest bang for your buck. As others have mentioned either an AVR or mini DSP.

My go to recommendation for ultimate 2.1 system is NAD M33. But it's expensive...
 

Chromatischism

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1. Treat the wall behind the speakers with broadband absorbers. It IS possible to do it without looking like a studio.
2. Use a thick rug on the floor.
2. Use room correction for bass below 200 Hz.
You forgot the wall behind him, which is a worse offender than the front wall.
 

Chromatischism

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I attached another image showing the "living room" area from a bit more distance. It is in fact a fairly large room which also includes kitchen, table, and desk. If you look at the couch again in the other picture I lay on the long part 99% of the time, which is actually not under the slope, but below that wooden beam. That also means my stereo triangle is currently messed up. This looks more extreme than it is, but you get the idea:

View attachment 149429

My plan was to pull the TV and speakers closer into the room and then shift the whole thing to the right. I will see what I can do and report back on that front. Should add that I haven't lived here for long and decorations have never been my priority, so it all looks a bit empty still. For example. I want to get some plants in front of those large windows.
I'd rotate the setup 90° and put the system right where you're pointing that camera, and the seats will open to the space behind you. Bonus: you'd have equidistant left/right for imaging, and for surround mounting.
 
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