How to improve Hi Res music listening on Denon AVR 3700H + Klipsch RP 8000F

[consciousspace]

Hello All,

Please help me improve my music listening experience, I have a 7.1 Home Theater setup it sounds decent for movies but for music listening I am not satisfied.

Current setup is a 7.1 HT setups with Klipsch RP8000 F as fronts + Denon AVR 3700H.

Listening method is using HESO APP and Spotify connect and listen on stereo mode in Denon 3700H. ( I don't use Audyssey or the sub)
I stream Tidal hires and play Flac files from the MacBook using JRMC + Topping E30 DAC connected to the AVR via RCA and listen on Pure direct mode.

Not sure if there is any major difference in sound quality from the above.

If I upgrade my DAC to something like a Dacmagic200m or chord mojo will it make any difference in sound quality?
Will adding a power amp like the Behringer A800 for the front and left speakers help?

I am a newbie and please try to advise me how to improve the sound quality and enjoy HIFI music.

Sincere thanks in advance.

 

[delta76]

Audyssey and sub will help your stereo music too.but what are you not satisfied with?

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Welcome and please stay here to learn. You will get so much more from your gears. Please let us have an idea of the listening space and its dimensions.
Speaking for myself here. Audyssey properly configured will help more than Pure Direct and this , objectively (measurements-wise).
I am no fan of Pure Direct. I am not alone.
Don't bother with an external DAC, it will make no audible difference.
Perhaps acquire another sub, same is OK but different/better is also OK. 2 subwoofers are always better than one. Let us know what subwoofer you already have. I strongly suggest a second subwoofer.
Don't bother with external amps, unless your room is huge and even then...
Buy the Audyssey App for smartphones/tablets worth it at $20.oo.

Come back to us, several from ASR will walk you through getting better sound from this system.

Welcome again

Peace.

 

[fubarnow]

You really have a lot of options on yer Denon that yer probably not using to get better sound.
It's can be good that your not using audyssey for sound processing because I find that
screws up my sound for music but works OK for TV and Movies.
You can change input levels and speaker levels for your room and taste
depending on yer source. You have to get into the menu and explore
just what the Denon can do. It might not be throwing money at this issue
you have is the answer.

 

[napfkuchen]

I also have a Denon X3700H and a 5.1.4 speaker system. Why don't you try out apple music spatial audio? Don't know if this works by directly connecting MacBook via HDMI to the Denon. I use an apple tv.

 

[SKBubba]

My suggestion is to not use pure direct and not use analog in. Instead, get something like Topping D10 and use it to convert usb to spdif coax in to your avr. Run audyssey and let it eq for your room. Then on your avr stereo mode source, turn on audyssey, dynamic eq, dynamic volume off. Try flat mode, and if it sounds bright/harsh try reference mode.

This will let your avr dac/dsp incorporate your sub and room eq. A different outboard dac will make no audible difference. Use the avr features you paid for.

(You can try the above audyssey settings with your E30, but it is not optimal because it is double dac conversion, dac-adc-dac. It will still sound better.)

 

[consciousspace]

Audyssey and sub will help your stereo music too.but what are you not satisfied with?

I guess I have not been using Audyssey properly may be I was not using the correct settings. I have a PB1000 SUB and in stereo mode the bass sounds a bit bloated and lacked the punch as compared to using the fronts at full range with sub off, so I had turned off Audyssey completely for music listening

 

[Chrispy]

I'd get better speakers.

 

[consciousspace]

Hi

Welcome and please stay here to learn. You will get so much more from your gears. Please let us have an idea of the listening space and its dimensions.
Speaking for myself here. Audyssey properly configured will help more than Pure Direct and this , objectively (measurements-wise).
I am no fan of Pure Direct. I am not alone.
Don't bother with an external DAC, it will make no audible difference.
Perhaps acquire another sub, same is OK but different/better is also OK. 2 subwoofers are always better than one. Let us know what subwoofer you already have. I strongly suggest a second subwoofer.
Don't bother with external amps, unless your room is huge and even then...
Buy the Audyssey App for smartphones/tablets worth it at $20.oo.

Come back to us, several from ASR will walk you through getting better sound from this system.

Welcome again

Peace.

Thank you for the warm welcome, been reading the forums for a long time and was shy to ask questions earlier and it took a lot for me to step out of my shell and reach out for help.

Its a small apartment living room W19" x L 12", no Accoustic treatment on the walls since its rented, I have a rug and a few cheap acoustic foam panels on the walls. It has a full glass balcony door on the right and plenty of open space on the left. (attached are some pictures)

The speakers are placed in an equilateral triangle from the listening position, and the the FR speakers are toed in and a feet from the back wall.
I am using the PB1000 as sub for movies, for music listening I prefer without the sub because the bass sounds very bloated and not tight and punchy, music sound lot better in my cars stereo system than in my room, so I assumed that there's something wrong with my setup.
I read somewhere since this is a ported sub and its good for movies but not as good for music listening a sealed sub is preferred, I made this decision consciously when purchasing the RP8000 thinking I will not be using a sub for music listening and hence I opted for the PB1000.
I have the Audyssey app not sure if I have used it correctly, followed a YouTube video and setup it up based on that, not sure if I have done that correctly.
I also have a second sub with is a very old pure acoustics sub, was not sure if that would match with the PB1000 so I have not connected that as a second sub.

 

[consciousspace]

I'd get better speakers.

I had this setup put up only last year and purchased everything brand new with great difficulty convincing my wife that this is a good setup for the budget we had. I have to first try and maximize the existing speakers setup and will replace the speakers eventually in a few years I guess.

 

[consciousspace]

I also have a Denon X3700H and a 5.1.4 speaker system. Why don't you try out apple music spatial audio? Don't know if this works by directly connecting MacBook via HDMI to the Denon. I use an apple tv.

I somehow don't like multichannel for music, I like stereo sound.

 

[Chrispy]

I somehow don't like multichannel for music, I like stereo sound.

Are you using the multich stereo modes or actual surround modes? Stereo for 2ch content IMO doesn't tranlate to multich stereo as well as it does to a surround upmixer. As far as current speakers, are you forced by WAF to put them too close too boundaries or ?

 

[consciousspace]

Are you using the multich stereo modes or actual surround modes? Stereo for 2ch content IMO doesn't tranlate to multich stereo as well as it does to a surround upmixer. As far as current speakers, are you forced by WAF to put them too close too boundaries or ?

what I meant was I like to listen to music not in surround mode but only from the left and right speakers, I have watched a few concerts in multichannel stereo, Atmos via Blu-ray and its great. Not sure if HDMI can be used for lossless music listening. I am trying to get a solution to maximize and get the best sound quality for music from Tidal, Spotify and Flac lossless music in my setup. I am sorry if I am not understanding what you meant.

 

[Chrispy]

what I meant was I like to listen to music not in surround mode but only from the left and right speakers, I have watched a few concerts in multichannel stereo, Atmos via Blu-ray and its great. Not sure if HDMI can be used for lossless music listening. I am trying to get a solution to maximize and get the best sound quality for music from Tidal, Spotify and Flac lossless music in my setup. I am sorry if I am not understanding what you meant.

Personally don't like the multich stereo mode generally. Using upmixer can depend on the particular music. HDMI can provide lossless. The streaming services only do so much as far as input goes, they should be more alike than different. Wouldn't bother with the bullshit with Tidal myself.

 

[Marc v E]

@consciousspace I think you have pretty much all the tools you need for a great listening experience.

What you need now is to measure your system using a minidsp umik microphone and Rew. The microphone costs 100 dollars/euros, Rew is free.

That way we can see what is going on and where improvements can be made.
Then you can apply the changes by slightly changing the layout of your speakers or adding eq with Audyssey in your Denon avr.

 

[Sal1950]

I have watched a few concerts in multichannel stereo, Atmos via Blu-ray and its great.

So why do you think your not getting the same '"great" sound from your other sources?
You have the building blocks of a very good hi-fi and seems you only need to work out
a few details.

Not sure if HDMI can be used for lossless music listening.

HDMI will deliver what the source provides and is probably the best way to deliver high quality
lossless music and movies to your system.

I am trying to get a solution to maximize and get the best sound quality for music from Tidal, Spotify and Flac lossless music in my setup.

Spotify still doesn't offer lossless AFAIK, and personally I not a fan of Tidal but connected properly should offer sound quality that satisfies your desires, just don't get sucked into their BS about MQA, its
all a con. Personally I use Apple since they offer they largest catalog of multich and Atmos music which is my passion..

To get back to the beginning of your thread, I really believe you should be using Audyssey together with it's app to get a proper digital room correction file configured. If done properly it will make your speakers sound the best they are capable of delivering..

I somehow don't like multichannel for music, I like stereo sound.

That's a shame! Anything a 2ch playback can do, a 5.1/Atmos system can do 5-9 times better when presented with equal quality mastered sources.

I have watched a few concerts in multichannel stereo, Atmos via Blu-ray and its great.

??? You seem confused on what you like SQ wise?

I stream Tidal hires and play Flac files from the MacBook using JRMC + Topping E30 DAC connected to the AVR via RCA and listen on Pure direct mode.

Can you configure JRMC to deliver Tidal & flac files via HDMI directly to your Denon?
That path combined with proper use of Audyssey should give you the best sound it's capable of.
After you've learned to use Audyssey + Editor app properly, then you might want to confirm it's
results using REW and a umik. Another climb up the learning curve I know, but you did come to
ASR looking for help and science is what we do here. Once you have the use of these tools in
your toolbelt, you'll learn to understand why your rig sounds the way it does and how to configure it
to your liking.

 

[consciousspace]

I'd get better speakers.

Personally don't like the multich stereo mode generally. Using upmixer can depend on the particular music. HDMI can provide lossless. The streaming services only do so much as far as input goes, they should be more alike than different. Wouldn't bother with the bullshit with Tidal myself.

Thanks for pointing about HDMI I was under the wrong impression that HDMI is used only for movies and not for serious audio listening. I agree that have been totally distracted with hi res music, bitrates etc.. lot of learnings here Thank you

 

[consciousspace]

@consciousspace I think you have pretty much all the tools you need for a great listening experience.

What you need now is to measure your system using a minidsp umik microphone and Rew. The microphone costs 100 dollars/euros, Rew is free.

That way we can see what is going on and where improvements can be made.
Then you can apply the changes by slightly changing the layout of your speakers or adding eq with Audyssey in your Denon avr.

Thank you for your comment, I did not know about REW and how to setup do advanced room correction using the software apart from the basic setup of Audyssey.

So why do you think your not getting the same '"great" sound from your other sources?
You have the building blocks of a very good hi-fi and seems you only need to work out
a few details.


HDMI will deliver what the source provides and is probably the best way to deliver high quality
lossless music and movies to your system.



Spotify still doesn't offer lossless AFAIK, and personally I not a fan of Tidal but connected properly should offer sound quality that satisfies your desires, just don't get sucked into their BS about MQA, its
all a con. Personally I use Apple since they offer they largest catalog of multich and Atmos music which is my passion..

To get back to the beginning of your thread, I really believe you should be using Audyssey together with it's app to get a proper digital room correction file configured. If done properly it will make your speakers sound the best they are capable of delivering..


That's a shame! Anything a 2ch playback can do, a 5.1/Atmos system can do 5-9 times better when presented with equal quality mastered sources.

??? You seem confused on what you like SQ wise?

Can you configure JRMC to deliver Tidal & flac files via HDMI directly to your Denon?
That path combined with proper use of Audyssey should give you the best sound it's capable of.
After you've learned to use Audyssey + Editor app properly, then you might want to confirm it's
results using REW and a umik. Another climb up the learning curve I know, but you did come to
ASR looking for help and science is what we do here. Once you have the use of these tools in
your toolbelt, you'll learn to understand why your rig sounds the way it does and how to configure it
to your liking.

Thank you for your comment, I was under the impression that MultiEQ settings are only for Movie watching and not for Music listening. I am sure I must have mis understood this, and i was distracted with TIDAL MQA maximum bitrate and all that.

I noticed Direct mode sounded better especially the bass, in stereo mode bass was flat and had less punch. Now I understand Audyssey cuts out the bass to get a flat frequency response. So I guess that's why music is sounding less punchy using Audyssey, in Direct mode bass is full but does not sound great either, I did not know about REW room correction and how to do bass management, now I am reading about it and hopefully I will be able to work this out.

I have the Audyssey but I don't know how to use it properly..I have attached some screenshots from the app of my current settings, can you please tell me what's wrong here.

I haven't used Apple Music because I had other subscriptions. I will get it and experience Multichannel music and Atmos music as well.
I did not know about HDMI being used for audio listening, will spend some time experimenting with this as per your suggestion.

is there an alternate for UMIK ?

I am grateful for the help I am getting from ASR and I am confident that I will get my issue sorted out but I have to keep learning and be patient.

 

[consciousspace]

@consciousspace I think you have pretty much all the tools you need for a great listening experience.

What you need now is to measure your system using a minidsp umik microphone and Rew. The microphone costs 100 dollars/euros, Rew is free.

That way we can see what is going on and where improvements can be made.
Then you can apply the changes by slightly changing the layout of your speakers or adding eq with Audyssey in your Denon avr.

Thank you for letting me know about REW software and UMIK, I will get one soon and start learning REW, came across this Video is this a good starting point ? or if you have any suggestion please let me know. Thank you.
(attaching a screenshot from the current curve of Audyssey app)

 

[Marc v E]

Thank you for letting me know about REW software and UMIK, I will get one soon and start learning REW, came across this Video is this a good starting point ? or if you have any suggestion please let me know. Thank you.
(attaching a screenshot from the current curve of Audyssey app)

This is a good starting point:

Thread 'Room Measurement Tutorial for Dummies Part 1' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...om-measurement-tutorial-for-dummies-part-1.4/

Part 2:
Thread 'Room Measurement Tutorial for Dummies Part 2' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...om-measurement-tutorial-for-dummies-part-2.5/