How to improve dynamics? Transients and punch.

[Bjorn]

I agree. I have a pair of Klipsh Forte I in my basement/ping pong system lol. They are crazy dynamic and the soundstage is superb, but they sound a little thin. Do you have any recommendations for horn loaded speakers?

Not surprisingly I would recommend our coming Vera Audio horn speaker if you live with the size and cost. You can see some information in the link below and more will come.

Vera Audio midrange horn - polar measurements

Vera Audio is developing a horn speaker system. It consist of a midrange horn, a midbass horn and requires a bass/subwoofer solution. It will be active and offered with a separate high quality DSP. The 2-horn system look like the following: I'll show some measurements of the midrange/top...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[fineMen]

I know I'll upgrade at some point, but it probably won't be until late next year.

An upgrade is naturally understood as spending more money. In this case that isn't true. Much of the cost for the B&W is spent on the actually pretty looks. If you find a new compromise looks versus performance, and conversely somebody else would be more concerned about the looks the upgrade could be just a cost neutral interchange.

Anyway, with the unduely suppressed mids the 'snap' or 'bite' is missing. I still think it is inbuilt to the original design as a trademark feature. Sometimes it is that simple.

 

[boxerfan88]

Should all values be "PK" in the drop dwn menu?

Yes, set the filter type to "PK".

"None" will disable that filter, and REW will ignore them.

 

[tommassing]

Let's ask the current incarnation of BonziBuddy...

Me: What are impulse and step response in audio reproduction, and how do they contribute to dynamics and transient response?


ChatGPT: In audio reproduction, the impulse response and step response are important measures of a system's ability to accurately reproduce a signal. The impulse response is the system's response to an impulse input, while the step response is the system's response to a step input.

An impulse input is a short burst of energy that contains all frequencies, and a step input is a sudden change in amplitude from zero to a constant value.
The impulse response is useful for characterizing the system's ability to faithfully reproduce the individual frequencies in a signal, as it shows how the system responds to each frequency in the input signal. In particular, the impulse response reveals information about the system's frequency response, which describes how the system amplifies or attenuates each frequency component in the signal.

The step response, on the other hand, provides information about the system's ability to reproduce transient signals, which are signals that change rapidly over time. The step response shows how quickly the system can respond to sudden changes in the input signal, and how accurately it can reproduce the shape of the transient signal.
Both the impulse and step response are important for achieving good dynamics and transient response in audio reproduction. A system with a fast and accurate step response will be able to faithfully reproduce the sharp attacks and decays of transient signals, such as percussive sounds, resulting in a more dynamic and lively sound. A system with a frequency response that accurately reproduces all frequencies in the input signal will be able to faithfully reproduce the tonal balance of the original recording, resulting in a more accurate and natural sound.

--

From your first measurement post:

View attachment 275345


Take a look...

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Oh, I see Step button only occurs on Overlays now, it is part of the Impulse display on the main screen...

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Examples from my place:

View attachment 275348

View attachment 275349

My graph looks nothing like yours.

 

[tommassing]

Yes, set the filter type to "PK".

"None" will disable that filter, and REW will ignore them.

Awesome. Thank you. I'll have some time to fiddle around with this later this week. I'll post results.

 

[tommassing]

An upgrade is naturally understood as spending more money. In this case that isn't true. Much of the cost for the B&W is spent on the actually pretty looks. If you find a new compromise looks versus performance, and conversely somebody else would be more concerned about the looks the upgrade could be just a cost neutral interchange.

Anyway, with the unduely suppressed mids the 'snap' or 'bite' is missing. I still think it is inbuilt to the original design as a trademark feature. Sometimes it is that simple.

Do you have a particular speaker or brand in mind?

 

[fineMen]

Do you have a particular speaker or brand in mind?

Sorry, not really. But as you are accustomed to advanced three way models, it may become hard to step back to the standard two way with all the Doppler distortion ;-)
I'm tempted to pick up one of those studio grade (no noise, 24band, etc) analog graphic-equalizers myself, as I suggested you could do. That 100$ are a relatively easy invest for me, and it may serve me occasionally with adapting a ready made speaker and humble amp to some other room, w/o going full strech digital (level matching TV, CD, streaming ...).

 

[tommassing]

Sorry, not really. But as you are accustomed to advanced three way models, it may become hard to step back to the standard two way with all the Doppler distortion ;-)
I'm tempted to pick up one of those studio grade (no noise, 24band, etc) analog graphic-equalizers myself, as I suggested you could do. That 100$ are a relatively easy invest for me, and it may serve me occasionally with adapting a ready made speaker and humble amp to some other room, w/o going full strech digital (level matching TV, CD, streaming ...).

I was going to ask you about the graphic equalizer, where would you look for something like that?

 

[fineMen]

I was going to ask you about the graphic equalizer, where would you look for something like that?

I'm European, so to name the sources won't help either. Otherwise, you could go digital for the e/q. 24bit is standard today, and even with a mismatch in level the loss isn't of any greater concern. The AD/DA conversion itself is virtually transparent, people say.

 

[tommassing]

Not surprisingly I would recommend our coming Vera Audio horn speaker if you live with the size and cost. You can see some information in the link below and more will come.

Vera Audio midrange horn - polar measurements

Vera Audio is developing a horn speaker system. It consist of a midrange horn, a midbass horn and requires a bass/subwoofer solution. It will be active and offered with a separate high quality DSP. The 2-horn system look like the following: I'll show some measurements of the midrange/top...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I mean, those are super cool, but I'd need to buy a bigger house. A big reason as to why I bought the B&W 704s is because of their smaller footprint. Even my Forte I wouldn't fit my room without a fair bit of effort. I could go tall, but wise is an issue.

 

[dualazmak]

My DSP-based multichannel multi-driver multi-amplifier project would be of your reference and interests, I assume.

Especially the following posts on measurement/tuning of time alinement and transient behavior;

- Precision measurement and adjustment of time alignment for speaker (SP) units: Part-1_ Precision pulse wave matching method: #493
- Precision measurement and adjustment of time alignment for speaker (SP) units: Part-2_ Energy peak matching method: #494
- Precision measurement and adjustment of time alignment for speaker (SP) units: Part-3_ Precision single sine wave matching method in 0.1 msec accuracy: #504, #507

- Measurement of transient characteristics of Yamaha 30 cm woofer JA-3058 in sealed cabinet and Yamaha active sub-woofer YST-SW1000: #495, #497, #503, #507

- Perfect (0.1 msec precision) time alignment of all the SP drivers greatly contributes to amazing disappearance of SPs, tightness and cleanliness of the sound, and superior 3D sound stage: #520

- Not only the precision (0.1 msec level) time alignment over all the SP drivers but also SP facing directions and sound-deadening space behind the SPs plus behind our listening position would be critically important for effective (perfect?) disappearance of speakers: #687

You would please find my latest system setup here and here.

You can also find Hyperlink Index for my project here and here.

 

[Bjorn]

I mean, those are super cool, but I'd need to buy a bigger house. A big reason as to why I bought the B&W 704s is because of their smaller footprint. Even my Forte I wouldn't fit my room without a fair bit of effort. I could go tall, but wise is an issue.

Understandable. Hope to have a CBT ready before the summer. Also a very dynamic speaker design with multiple drivers (48 tweeters and 16 woofers).