How to Hot Rod a Denon AVR-X3600H?

[HionHiFi]

How can we hot rod the Denon AVR-X3600H Receiver to get more performance out of it?

Based on Amir’s review and measurements here, the X3600H is good platform to build a home theater or even a 2-channel system around. I have a 2-channel system.

I, for one, would like to add a higher powered, better performing amplifier to the Denon to drive my front L/R speakers; a pair of PSB Stratus Goldi‘s.

What are good 2 channel amplifiers for the X3600H? The receiver needs an amplifier that can be driven to full output with less than 1.5v to avoid the DAC’s performance being reduced from being overdriven. If I’m understanding Amir’s results correctly! Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. I’d like to understand how to interpret @amirm X3600H findings in the this a bit better, ie, what the findings mean in practice and how to work around them to get the best performance out of the receiver.

For example, what does he mean when he say’s?

When I enabled the 11 channel mode and redirected the amp from left and right channel, that problem completely vanished:

I interpreted it to mean just what it says, but what confuses me is the whole thing about needing <= 1.5v to drive an external amplifier on the front L/R channels. It seems to me that by bypassing the internal amplifiers (by putting the receiver into 11 channel mode and redirecting the amplifier from L/R channels) you wouldn’t have any issues. However, it also seems there’s a limitation to this, ie, you‘d want to use an amplifier that can be driven to full output with < 1.5v in order not overdrive the preouts? Is that correct??

What other tweaks can be done to hot rod the performance of the Denon AVR-X3600H?

Let’s talk.

 

[Wes]

How about bored out .90 over with 3 Stromberg 97's ??

 

[HionHiFi]

How about bored out .90 over with 3 Stromberg 97's ??

Yeah, throw in a spell from Osiris and a little bit of Songhai love in there as well.

 

[amirm]

What are good 2 channel amplifiers for the X3600H? The receiver needs an amplifier that can be driven to full output with less than 1.5v to avoid the DAC’s performance being reduced from being overdriven. If I’m understanding Amir’s results correctly!

If you don't disable the FL & FR amps, then you should not exceed 1.5 volt output. If on the other hand you disable the amp, then 2 volts gives you the best performance.

 

[rccarguy]

Buy a stereo interegrated amp for 2 ch use as the Denon is lousy for that (not my words but from someone on another forum owner of 3600)

 

[HionHiFi]

If you don't disable the FL & FR amps, then you should not exceed 1.5 volt output. If on the other hand you disable the amp, then 2 volts gives you the best performance.

By the not disabling the L/R front channels means I’m using the receivers amplifiers to drive the front L/R speakers. In that case how does one not exceed 1.5v’s?

If turning on 11 ch mode and disabling the amps allows for external amplification at normal voltages, ie 2v, why so much confusion around this whole 1.5v vs 2v thing?

Buy a stereo interegrated amp for 2 ch use as the Denon is lousy for that (not my words but from someone on another forum owner of 3600)

Mine works very well as a 2-ch integrated amplifier. It integrates HDMI sources, has built in network and streaming audio, room correction, Apple Airplay2, Bluetooth, serviceable amplifiers and DAC plus more. Those things combined make it a great little 2-ch integrated. Better in-fact than a few “high-end” integrated amplifiers I’ve owned in the past.

The hardest part for me to remember is to turn off Audyssey Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Vol, and LF Comp when I go from late night movie watching back to stereo.

 

[rccarguy]

Just copying what couple of 3500 reported.

Typically avr are mediocre against a stereo amp.

My audiolab 8000q outclasses my lexicon mc-8 by quite a bit, lexicon was pretty expensive at release

 

[MaxTemp]

By the not disabling the L/R front channels means I’m using the receivers amplifiers to drive the front L/R speakers. In that case how does one not exceed 1.5v’s?

If turning on 11 ch mode and disabling the amps allows for external amplification at normal voltages, ie 2v, why so much confusion around this whole 1.5v vs 2v thing?

Mine works very well as a 2-ch integrated amplifier. It integrates HDMI sources, has built in network and streaming audio, room correction, Apple Airplay2, Bluetooth, serviceable amplifiers and DAC plus more. Those things combined make it a great little 2-ch integrated. Better in-fact than a few “high-end” integrated amplifiers I’ve owned in the past.

The hardest part for me to remember is to turn off Audyssey Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Vol, and LF Comp when I go from late night movie watching back to stereo.

The 1.5 or 2 volt output talk is if you are using an external amplifier.

 

[HionHiFi]

The 1.5 or 2 volt output talk is if you are using an external amplifier.

Yeah, I get that. What I don’t get is how one would know when their pushing enough watts to get to 1.5v? So that, if using the internal amplifiers, it can be avoided.

 

[Promit]

Yeah, I get that. What I don’t get is how one would know when their pushing enough watts to get to 1.5v? So that, if using the internal amplifiers, it can be avoided.

Ideally with some test equipment, like what Amir has. Maybe you could get away with an oscilloscope. Otherwise you’re stuck doing what everyone does which is to buy an amp and assume/hope your ears and brain aren’t lying to you about the difference.

 

[MaxTemp]

Yeah, I get that. What I don’t get is how one would know when their pushing enough watts to get to 1.5v? So that, if using the internal amplifiers, it can be avoided.

You will need to know the specs of your external amplifier to see how many volts are required for its designated performance. Some amplifiers will hit full power at 1.4 volts as an example.

 

[preload]

Is that 1.5V peak or RMS? And at what frequency?

 

[HionHiFi]

Ideally with some test equipment, like what Amir has. Maybe you could get away with an oscilloscope. Otherwise you’re stuck doing what everyone does which is to buy an amp and assume/hope your ears and brain aren’t lying to you about the difference.

Yeah, those are the routes I was thinking myself.

 

[HionHiFi]

Is that 1.5V peak or RMS? And at what frequency?

Not sure, maybe @amirm can chime in here.

 

[Sancus]

1.5v is normally 80(or 0db in the other mode) on the volume setting according to the X3500H review.

 

[Bear123]

I don't know of anyone that listens on a regular or even short term basis at or above reference level i.e MV of 0. If you get 1.5 volts from the pre-outs at reference level, I don't see anyone running into an issue with distortion rising on the pre-outs even without the amps disconnected. The loudest I usually will watch a movie is -10 and that is much louder than anyone in my family cares to watch. On music, by -5 MV, it is loud enough to cause hearing damage over prolonged periods. It's like club level loud. So again, if the only time the pre-outs would exceed 1.5 volts is above reference, its a complete non issue on both the 3600 AND the half price 3500 that also has excellent pre-out performance below 1.5 volts.

Having said that, if you want more clean power than the Denon can provide, and you want the assurance of the cleanest signal possible from the Denon(which I completely understand as a hobbyist), then pick up a Monoprice Monolith 3/5/7 channel amp. It achieves full power with 1.43 volts according to the Audioholics review. 200/300 watts and substantial burst capability, excellent measured performance, manufactured by ATI, good warranty. It's cheap enough that it would almost be foolish to not get the 3 channel since more power for the center channel is pretty important, but for a couple of steak dinners more you can get the 5 channel.

https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/monoprice-monolith-7-channel-amplifier-review

Although currently out of stock at Monoprice, the 5 channel is listed at $1299. Thats a crazy good deal, and seems even cheaper than before.

 

[Bear123]

Buy a stereo interegrated amp for 2 ch use as the Denon is lousy for that (not my words but from someone on another forum owner of 3600)

We have measurements to show this isn't true. "Someone" on the other forum has a good imagination, which is common in this hobby.

 

[rccarguy]

Measurements doesn't show if it sounds good or bad, just how it performs ie power output etc. and the other person bought a 3600

Typically avr are poor relative to stereo integrateds.

 

[Bear123]

Just copying what couple of 3500 reported.

Typically avr are mediocre against a stereo amp.

My audiolab 8000q outclasses my lexicon mc-8 by quite a bit, lexicon was pretty expensive at release

Objective measurements on these high end units is showing this isn't true for the most part. So far, Denon has outperformed most other AVR's and expensive 2 channels that have been tested. Based on everything I've seen here on this site, no way I'd buy something more expensive than Denon AVR's without solid measurements proving its performance. Way too many "high end" products that are in fact worse once you get past marketing, brand reputation, and price.

 

[Bear123]

Measurements doesn't show if it sounds good or bad,

Of course they do. You are mistaking what people imagine they hear with whats actually there.