• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

How to fine tune my kef r3?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 51459
  • Start date

HarmonicTHD

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
3,326
Likes
4,829
Above Dirac is Trinnov, but if you're using stereo only, Trinnov may not make much sense.

You got to be kidding me.

Did you see the video?

How can you recommend to someone from Bulgaria with a desk setup a 10.000 plus USD Trinnov AVR?

Someone who can’t even get a Denon X Series.

:facepalm:

Edit. Nevermind.
 
Last edited:

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,066
Likes
14,697
You got to be kidding me.

Did you see the video?

How can you recommend to someone from Bulgaria with a desk setup a 10.000 plus USD Trinnov AVR?

Someone you can’t even get a Denon X Series.

:facepalm:
They didn't recommend it to them. They answered the question as to whether Dirac was the best and said it probsbly wasn't appropriate.
 
OP
D

Deleted member 51459

Guest
You got to be kidding me.

Did you see the video?

How can you recommend to someone from Bulgaria with a desk setup a 10.000 plus USD Trinnov AVR?

Someone you can’t even get a Denon X Series.

:facepalm:
i like these Trifonof, but they are not offered here where i am living i guess not a dealer :(
i can get used denon from europe but thats out of the search now because , i cant write it as accountant expense and they are asking used price for new which is robbery.
Also i learned my lesson and i will not buy home theater receiver , i already have 1 useless receiver which cant drive properly my speakers .
 

HarmonicTHD

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
3,326
Likes
4,829
They didn't recommend it to them. They answered the question as to whether Dirac was the best and said it probsbly wasn't appropriate.
Alright fair enough.

I might even see how this ends. We recommend something and it doesn’t work out for whatever reason and then… you fill in the blanks.

I am out too.
 
OP
D

Deleted member 51459

Guest
i am very very confused,
hifi audio world is extremely complex,
we have high end cables,

we have integrated amps, speakers etcs...

if i buy for example NAD C399, do i need to buy additional DSP + dac in order to improve sound quality and with how much i will improve sound quality will it be 5-10-20% or more ?
All of these useless things are made to extract more money from you, with wireless speakers is so easy all in one, no needing for 10 different additional things...
 

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,633
Likes
2,751
You got to be kidding me.

Did you see the video?

How can you recommend to someone from Bulgaria with a desk setup a 10.000 plus USD Trinnov AVR?

Someone you can’t even get a Denon X Series.

:facepalm:
Didn't he say high end? Well, that is high end.

I recommended nothing. He asked if there was something above Dirac and yes, there is.

Lyngdorff is the other case, but It does not seem that Room Perfect is way, way better than Dirac.

Would I take a NAD with Dirac over Trinnov? Yes, any day of the week; and spend the difference on speakers and music.
 
Last edited:

Galliardist

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 26, 2021
Messages
2,558
Likes
3,273
Location
Sydney. NSW, Australia
Let's draw out a couple of quick lessons here.

Firstly, not all of us said there would be a night and day difference between the Mu-so and KEFs. Back when you first started asking here, I pointed out that the Muso is well designed for what it does, and that a full stereo setup is a different thing to both that and the car system you referred to. For some people here, I want to reiterate that lesson. I bet the Muso "measures badly" as well in absolute terms - but maybe not for the job in hand.

Secondly, let's nail the JVC issue. We don't have full measurements, but let's use a proxy. The power draw on that device is 150W. For a suitable 70W class AB amplifier to drive your speakers, we should expect that figure to be over 450W. There's a second clue in the manual, where the specification states distortion from 40Hz to 20KHz. Note the 40Hz. I think all of this has been said already, I'm just gathering it in one place for my own convenience.

This amp is designed to drive friendly speakers along with a sub. You might get away at low volume with that amp, even so, if you crossed over to your subwoofer at say 100Hz and use appropriate settings in the amp. I wouldn't recommend it though. As it is, let's hope you haven't damaged the R3s with it.

The input level from the PC might have been too high as well, but that's a wild guess.

Now, we should not assume that all JVC equipment, or all AVRs, or all AB amps, or all older amps are crap from this experiment. That receiver was designed for a particular use case - easier to drive speakers, used with a high crossover point to a sub. It will do that job well. It's just not designed for the job you gave it.

So you'll need a new amp, but you sort of knew that anyway. Now, let's try and deal with some of the other potential sources of disappointment and get you up and running.
Practically everything that has been recommended to you will work.

So what else can go wrong?
Firstly, the speaker placement. We probably need a picture of the desk and some dimensions to really sort it out. but from what I can see in your picture, one speaker is right in front of a window with no curtain or blind. That may or may not be a problem. On a desk the speakers are almost certainly close to the back wall. The KEFs come with foam bungs. Use all of them.
A pair of desk stands or similar to raise the speakers a couple of inches will help. You can experiment with something on the desk to stop reflections as well. I don't see that recommended very often and have never used your type of setup, so I'd defer to the many here who do on that one. In fact there are posts on this forum from people who use KEFs in this way. I'm going to give you some homework to search and find those posts and learn from them. People who have done what you are trying to do already, are the ones to learn from. I listen to big speakers, far field, so I'm not truly your guide here.

Secondly, if you are going to get a DAC or all in one amp, see if you can get somewhere to try out the phone app. There's nothing worse than an interface that annoys you when trying to choose music, and it can spoil the whole experience. (Though you can always bolt on another app later via your computer, or use the Airplay setup you've already referred to).

Thirdly, make sure you have a place where you can put your amp according to its instructions, with the relevant space around it, and in a spot where you can use the remote (if you wish and if you have one).

Finally, DSP. You can add DSP in any number of ways, per the various answers you have been given. But you really need to get to a stage where you have relatively clean undistorted sound first. If you want an all in one does everything amplifier, then as has been pointed out to you, the NAD options with Dirac are the way to go. As far as limited range goes - I wouldn't actually worry. You are listening close up to a desktop system, so reflections at higher frequencies will probably be less important than the bass for treatment. As I keep repeating, this is a different use case. You have to stop thinking in terms of your car system here. You will have to invest some time learning how the DSP you get works, or bring in someone knowledgeable to work with you. "Reference sound" doesn't come from just picking the right boxes.

I think in your shoes I would buy the NAD C399, and run it with a computer front end that you can add your choice of OS and applications to. That way you get good sound pretty quickly with the correct speaker setup, and you can choose whether to chase better sound via applications on the computer if you need to.

As for upgrades from there, the best one will be a good room where you can set up the KEFs on proper stands in free space and listen to them as designed. Unfortunately rooms tend to be the most expensive thing of all so you need to make the best of what you have.

Good luck!
 
OP
D

Deleted member 51459

Guest
Let's draw out a couple of quick lessons here.

Firstly, not all of us said there would be a night and day difference between the Mu-so and KEFs. Back when you first started asking here, I pointed out that the Muso is well designed for what it does, and that a full stereo setup is a different thing to both that and the car system you referred to. For some people here, I want to reiterate that lesson. I bet the Muso "measures badly" as well in absolute terms - but maybe not for the job in hand.

Secondly, let's nail the JVC issue. We don't have full measurements, but let's use a proxy. The power draw on that device is 150W. For a suitable 70W class AB amplifier to drive your speakers, we should expect that figure to be over 450W. There's a second clue in the manual, where the specification states distortion from 40Hz to 20KHz. Note the 40Hz. I think all of this has been said already, I'm just gathering it in one place for my own convenience.

This amp is designed to drive friendly speakers along with a sub. You might get away at low volume with that amp, even so, if you crossed over to your subwoofer at say 100Hz and use appropriate settings in the amp. I wouldn't recommend it though. As it is, let's hope you haven't damaged the R3s with it.

The input level from the PC might have been too high as well, but that's a wild guess.

Now, we should not assume that all JVC equipment, or all AVRs, or all AB amps, or all older amps are crap from this experiment. That receiver was designed for a particular use case - easier to drive speakers, used with a high crossover point to a sub. It will do that job well. It's just not designed for the job you gave it.

So you'll need a new amp, but you sort of knew that anyway. Now, let's try and deal with some of the other potential sources of disappointment and get you up and running.
Practically everything that has been recommended to you will work.

So what else can go wrong?
Firstly, the speaker placement. We probably need a picture of the desk and some dimensions to really sort it out. but from what I can see in your picture, one speaker is right in front of a window with no curtain or blind. That may or may not be a problem. On a desk the speakers are almost certainly close to the back wall. The KEFs come with foam bungs. Use all of them.
A pair of desk stands or similar to raise the speakers a couple of inches will help. You can experiment with something on the desk to stop reflections as well. I don't see that recommended very often and have never used your type of setup, so I'd defer to the many here who do on that one. In fact there are posts on this forum from people who use KEFs in this way. I'm going to give you some homework to search and find those posts and learn from them. People who have done what you are trying to do already, are the ones to learn from. I listen to big speakers, far field, so I'm not truly your guide here.

Secondly, if you are going to get a DAC or all in one amp, see if you can get somewhere to try out the phone app. There's nothing worse than an interface that annoys you when trying to choose music, and it can spoil the whole experience. (Though you can always bolt on another app later via your computer, or use the Airplay setup you've already referred to).

Thirdly, make sure you have a place where you can put your amp according to its instructions, with the relevant space around it, and in a spot where you can use the remote (if you wish and if you have one).

Finally, DSP. You can add DSP in any number of ways, per the various answers you have been given. But you really need to get to a stage where you have relatively clean undistorted sound first. If you want an all in one does everything amplifier, then as has been pointed out to you, the NAD options with Dirac are the way to go. As far as limited range goes - I wouldn't actually worry. You are listening close up to a desktop system, so reflections at higher frequencies will probably be less important than the bass for treatment. As I keep repeating, this is a different use case. You have to stop thinking in terms of your car system here. You will have to invest some time learning how the DSP you get works, or bring in someone knowledgeable to work with you. "Reference sound" doesn't come from just picking the right boxes.

I think in your shoes I would buy the NAD C399, and run it with a computer front end that you can add your choice of OS and applications to. That way you get good sound pretty quickly with the correct speaker setup, and you can choose whether to chase better sound via applications on the computer if you need to.

As for upgrades from there, the best one will be a good room where you can set up the KEFs on proper stands in free space and listen to them as designed. Unfortunately rooms tend to be the most expensive thing of all so you need to make the best of what you have.

Good luck!
The KEFs come with foam bungs. Use all of them. - how to use these foams ?
do you mean there is foam inside which i need to remove or ?

When i got my salary i will buy new integrated amplifier probably and i will check it out for night and difference again........... i am not sure if i need DSP, how much %%% will improve my sound quality dsp ? i understand that putting speakers in stands is better but stands cost a lot and i am not looking for things for more heavy and space consuming things...
i live in rented basement so .
I understand that jvc is junk i dont think its even class ab, jvc was made to drive small sattelitte speakers... thats it.


About amps as i mentioned they are not available in stock things i like nad c399
not sure when they will have stock so i cant even test apps or the products...


I cant buy or order new room, because again i live in rented place/space it will take probably years untill i will be able to afford my own home.
 

Galliardist

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 26, 2021
Messages
2,558
Likes
3,273
Location
Sydney. NSW, Australia
The KEFs come with foam bungs. Use all of them. - how to use these foams ?
do you mean there is foam inside which i need to remove or ?

When i got my salary i will buy new integrated amplifier probably and i will check it out for night and difference again........... i am not sure if i need DSP, how much %%% will improve my sound quality dsp ? i understand that putting speakers in stands is better but stands cost a lot and i am not looking for things for more heavy and space consuming things...
i live in rented basement so .
I understand that jvc is junk i dont think its even class ab, jvc was made to drive small sattelitte speakers... thats it.


About amps as i mentioned they are not available in stock things i like nad c399
not sure when they will have stock so i cant even test apps or the products...


I cant buy or order new room, because again i live in rented place/space it will take probably years untill i will be able to afford my own home.
You should have four pieces of foam supplied with the speakers Two rings (the size of the port in the back) and two smaller solid pieces that will fit into the rings. You insert the solid pieces into the rings, and then put the foam into the ports.

This reduces the bass response of the speaker. You might not think that desirable, but when you put a speaker on a desk with their backs close to the wall, that increases the bass response and the foam plugs compensate for it. If you want more bass, it's better to provide it in a controlled way with a sub and equalisation.

Have you looked for and read the other R3 posts as I suggested? Indeed, have you even looked at the user guide provided with the speakers?

The suggested "night and day" difference is about stereo imaging, essentially. Not an expensive amp. If you have the speakers on a desk, you immediately lose that advantage unless you have a fairly large desk, have the speakers at the edge, position them accurately, and listen from very close. Otherwise, all you get is a very expensive, poorer version of the Mu-so and you're better off keeping that instead.

Just spending lots of money is trounced by buying decent components, appropriate to your circumstances, and using them as intended, every single time.

As for the amp, the one thing that we could reasonably assume from your various wish lists and requests for help was that the NAD amps are available to you. Now you say they aren't?

The answer to this is not so difficult. There are hifi dealers and even a couple of manufacturers in your country. So what you need to do is check your finances, work out what you can really afford, and go to a shop. If what they have is a little expensive, save a bit longer, see if you can part exchange the JVC or the Mu-so, ask if they can move on price for you in some way. If you're good at budgeting, buy on credit (I wouldn't trust myself personally). There are plenty of options. You may find that the local dealer can provide a lot more choice than you think.

None of us can buy what we can't afford or isn't available to us for whatever reason. I know, I have an expensive system, but I'm at the end of my working life and had the money precisely because I'm a sad case who hasn't taken lots of holidays, don't have the expense of a car because I can't drive, I don't smoke or drink, we live in a small flat, my wife doesn't go in for expensive jewellery or clothes, and so on, and so on. And I know for a fact that a substantial number of people here who weren't faced with the restrictions I have - space, etc. - have sound as good as I do for far less money. My disc player was chosen from those available to me at the time, during covid, because my wife required one and she can operate it, not because of "reference quality", for example.

In fact, my desk headphone "system" - desktop PC, basic headphones, just using the internal Realtek chip and EQ software - provides excellent sound at my desk for way less than the R3s have cost you. Some weeks I do a lot more listening there, in fact.

So, to reiterate:
Work out what you can afford
Go to a shop and buy an amp that is actually available to you
Set your amp and speakers up as they are intended to be used.


If you don't. or can't, do those things you are wasting your time and money.
 
Last edited:
OP
D

Deleted member 51459

Guest
You should have four pieces of foam supplied with the speakers Two rings (the size of the port in the back) and two smaller solid pieces that will fit into the rings. You insert the solid pieces into the rings, and then put the foam into the ports.

This reduces the bass response of the speaker. You might not think that desirable, but when you put a speaker on a desk with their backs close to the wall, that increases the bass response and the foam plugs compensate for it. If you want more bass, it's better to provide it in a controlled way with a sub and equalisation.

Have you looked for and read the other R3 posts as I suggested? Indeed, have you even looked at the user guide provided with the speakers?

The suggested "night and day" difference is about stereo imaging, essentially. Not an expensive amp. If you have the speakers on a desk, you immediately lose that advantage unless you have a fairly large desk, have the speakers at the edge, position them accurately, and listen from very close. Otherwise, all you get is a very expensive, poorer version of the Mu-so and you're better off keeping that instead.

Just spending lots of money is trounced by buying decent components, appropriate to your circumstances, and using them as intended, every single time.

As for the amp, the one thing that we could reasonably assume from your various wish lists and requests for help was that the NAD amps are available to you. Now you say they aren't?

The answer to this is not so difficult. There are hifi dealers and even a couple of manufacturers in your country. So what you need to do is check your finances, work out what you can really afford, and go to a shop. If what they have is a little expensive, save a bit longer, see if you can part exchange the JVC or the Mu-so, ask if they can move on price for you in some way. If you're good at budgeting, buy on credit (I wouldn't trust myself personally). There are plenty of options. You may find that the local dealer can provide a lot more choice than you think.

None of us can buy what we can't afford or isn't available to us for whatever reason. I know, I have an expensive system, but I'm at the end of my working life and had the money precisely because I'm a sad case who hasn't taken lots of holidays, don't have the expense of a car because I can't drive, I don't smoke or drink, we live in a small flat, my wife doesn't go in for expensive jewellery or clothes, and so on, and so on. And I know for a fact that a substantial number of people here who weren't faced with the restrictions I have - space, etc. - have sound as good as I do for far less money. My disc player was chosen from those available to me at the time, during covid, because my wife required one and she can operate it, not because of "reference quality", for example.

In fact, my desk headphone "system" - desktop PC, basic headphones, just using the internal Realtek chip and EQ software - provides excellent sound at my desk for way less than the R3s have cost you. Some weeks I do a lot more listening there, in fact.

So, to reiterate:
Work out what you can afford
Go to a shop and buy an amp that is actually available to you
Set your amp and speakers up as they are intended to be used.


If you don't. or can't, do those things you are wasting your time and money.
Hi Mine have only 2 small pieces i think other 2 pieces are inserts inside them not really sure,
i have bought them from abroad so i dont have shop which supply these or can help me.
From my jvc receiver i have same option to reduce bass i have bass bost and bass control i can reduce it from there which is same i think instead of foams?


https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dlYAAOSwxndcTx8g/s-l1600.jpg i have these two foams only.i am not sure what their purpose is.


Yes i have read the kef r3 manual several times, but without proper amp they wont go further.

I can get NAD M33, right away its in stock nad 298 i must wait no idea how much,
nad c399 i must wait out of stock,. not sure when it will be available no one knows...
Dealerships doesnt help me at all..
in my country no body makes simular exchanges product for another product jvc is 30-40 years old no one will want it same story with Muso, the only exchange that we have here is if you have car up to 10 years old and it have some value inside,
they deduct car price from new car purchase and thats it. i have taken a look into the bg sites from dealership from different brands even if they claim they got something when i phone call them they say its with manufacturer and they need to get it and in reality they hold up 000 inventory...
i can buy nad m33 from abroad.
and due to the fact that this company also have registration in my country they can issue invoice to be as company expense.
i dont buy on credit never
, i am also a sad case i never take a holiday., and no wife or kids.

i am aware that i cant achieve with my kef r3 position the best possible sound stage, but i also dont plan to spend tons of more money for stands because i have no place to put them...
is it normal my kef r3 to have into their botton 4 place for screws ?
 

wav3form

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2022
Messages
37
Likes
19
Hi Mine have only 2 small pieces i think other 2 pieces are inserts inside them not really sure,
i have bought them from abroad so i dont have shop which supply these or can help me.
From my jvc receiver i have same option to reduce bass i have bass bost and bass control i can reduce it from there which is same i think instead of foams?


https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dlYAAOSwxndcTx8g/s-l1600.jpg i have these two foams only.i am not sure what their purpose is.


Yes i have read the kef r3 manual several times, but without proper amp they wont go further.

I can get NAD M33, right away its in stock nad 298 i must wait no idea how much,
nad c399 i must wait out of stock,. not sure when it will be available no one knows...
Dealerships doesnt help me at all..
in my country no body makes simular exchanges product for another product jvc is 30-40 years old no one will want it same story with Muso, the only exchange that we have here is if you have car up to 10 years old and it have some value inside,
they deduct car price from new car purchase and thats it. i have taken a look into the bg sites from dealership from different brands even if they claim they got something when i phone call them they say its with manufacturer and they need to get it and in reality they hold up 000 inventory...
i can buy nad m33 from abroad.
and due to the fact that this company also have registration in my country they can issue invoice to be as company expense.
i dont buy on credit never
, i am also a sad case i never take a holiday., and no wife or kids.

i am aware that i cant achieve with my kef r3 position the best possible sound stage, but i also dont plan to spend tons of more money for stands because i have no place to put them...
is it normal my kef r3 to have into their botton 4 place for screws ?
You're not a sad case, no wife or kids is freedom. Just depends on your perspective is all. Anyway, I have a set of R3 but I run them with a 100W tube amp and they respond well to that. I'm also looking for a digital amp with more power to see if I can get any more out of the speakers.

To answer your question, they do have threaded inserts on the bottom for a stand that KEF never actually created. I just have mine on some generic stands.
 
OP
D

Deleted member 51459

Guest
You're not a sad case, no wife or kids is freedom. Just depends on your perspective is all. Anyway, I have a set of R3 but I run them with a 100W tube amp and they respond well to that. I'm also looking for a digital amp with more power to see if I can get any more out of the speakers.

To answer your question, they do have threaded inserts on the bottom for a stand that KEF never actually created. I just have mine on some generic stands.
All right then , but these threded inserts, doesnt have any legs or something which i miss right? Also what amp with power do you plan to use
 

Galliardist

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 26, 2021
Messages
2,558
Likes
3,273
Location
Sydney. NSW, Australia
Hi Mine have only 2 small pieces i think other 2 pieces are inserts inside them not really sure,
i have bought them from abroad so i dont have shop which supply these or can help me.
From my jvc receiver i have same option to reduce bass i have bass bost and bass control i can reduce it from there which is same i think instead of foams?


https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dlYAAOSwxndcTx8g/s-l1600.jpg i have these two foams only.i am not sure what their purpose is.


Yes i have read the kef r3 manual several times, but without proper amp they wont go further.

I can get NAD M33, right away its in stock nad 298 i must wait no idea how much,
nad c399 i must wait out of stock,. not sure when it will be available no one knows...
Dealerships doesnt help me at all..
in my country no body makes simular exchanges product for another product jvc is 30-40 years old no one will want it same story with Muso, the only exchange that we have here is if you have car up to 10 years old and it have some value inside,
they deduct car price from new car purchase and thats it. i have taken a look into the bg sites from dealership from different brands even if they claim they got something when i phone call them they say its with manufacturer and they need to get it and in reality they hold up 000 inventory...
i can buy nad m33 from abroad.
and due to the fact that this company also have registration in my country they can issue invoice to be as company expense.
i dont buy on credit never
, i am also a sad case i never take a holiday., and no wife or kids.

i am aware that i cant achieve with my kef r3 position the best possible sound stage, but i also dont plan to spend tons of more money for stands because i have no place to put them...
is it normal my kef r3 to have into their botton 4 place for screws ?
For the foam inserts - if what you have is the same size as the port, that's what you'll need. You insert them into the ports, far enough to block it, but not so far that you can't get them out again easily.
They are not the same as using the amplifier bass control. They specifically control the port output of the speaker, and a bass control will modify the sound in a very different way, probably over a wider frequency range as well.

The threaded inserts can be safely ignored, as confirmed by @wav3form

For your amp - well, we can search Google for stores in your country. And I see what you mean!....

It looks like the Marantz PM12SE might be immediately available to you as well as some NAD amps. And the good news if you are prepared for an older model, is that the NAD C388 seems to be available at a discount (probably in the process of being discontinued) and it should be identical in sound, for your purposes, to the C399. I believe facilities are also pretty similar including that you can add the BluOS board if you want: in your situation, it looks like the best way to meet your needs.

I'd have thought the M33 was out of your price range from previous posts?
 
OP
D

Deleted member 51459

Guest
For the foam inserts - if what you have is the same size as the port, that's what you'll need. You insert them into the ports, far enough to block it, but not so far that you can't get them out again easily.
They are not the same as using the amplifier bass control. They specifically control the port output of the speaker, and a bass control will modify the sound in a very different way, probably over a wider frequency range as well.

The threaded inserts can be safely ignored, as confirmed by @wav3form

For your amp - well, we can search Google for stores in your country. And I see what you mean!....

It looks like the Marantz PM12SE might be immediately available to you as well as some NAD amps. And the good news if you are prepared for an older model, is that the NAD C388 seems to be available at a discount (probably in the process of being discontinued) and it should be identical in sound, for your purposes, to the C399. I believe facilities are also pretty similar including that you can add the BluOS board if you want: in your situation, it looks like the best way to meet your needs.

I'd have thought the M33 was out of your price range from previous posts?
Hi :)
what benefit i will get with these foam will i receive more vocals or something else ?

about marantz pm12 se yes i can get it it cost same price as NAD M33 master series nad m33 have double the power almost.
nad c388 cant use the dirac and price difference is not big, the amplifier i will write as company /accountant expense so i preffer to be latest and greatest model for the last 40 years i have bought 000 amps for my home / i am still in my rented basemant not yet home, i bought for my cars only...


Nad m33 i got some discount, it will cost me around 3900$
approximately...
will i have good resale value ?

Marantz PM12SE this model is not available in the excel sinad value table is it any good or bad?

 

Galliardist

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 26, 2021
Messages
2,558
Likes
3,273
Location
Sydney. NSW, Australia
The foam basically tailors the bass in the speaker. If you don't use it it's likely the bass response will have a huge unwanted hump. It will sound boomy and lose definition. If you want to use DIRAC you may want to try foam in and foam out and see which gives the best response though. Again, read the various posts here from existing R3 users.

If you can afford the M33 and intend to use the extra facilities, go for it. You won't need to worry about resale value because you won't need to sell it. You should ask about warranty though. If you're talking a grey import particularly, make sure you know your consumer law and what the seller provides. You won't be happy if the amp doesn't turn on out of the box and you have no real warranty!

The Marantz probably won't measure as well as the M33, but not an audible difference. It's a plain integrated amp - no EQ or anything - so if you are rejecting the C388 for that reason, you should also reject the Marantz.
 
OP
D

Deleted member 51459

Guest
The foam basically tailors the bass in the speaker. If you don't use it it's likely the bass response will have a huge unwanted hump. It will sound boomy and lose definition. If you want to use DIRAC you may want to try foam in and foam out and see which gives the best response though. Again, read the various posts here from existing R3 users.

If you can afford the M33 and intend to use the extra facilities, go for it. You won't need to worry about resale value because you won't need to sell it. You should ask about warranty though. If you're talking a grey import particularly, make sure you know your consumer law and what the seller provides. You won't be happy if the amp doesn't turn on out of the box and you have no real warranty!

The Marantz probably won't measure as well as the M33, but not an audible difference. It's a plain integrated amp - no EQ or anything - so if you are rejecting the C388 for that reason, you should also reject the Marantz.
What extra options can m33 provide to me ? based on the sinad chart is lower compared to c399 ? it have same dac etcs only difference is hypex vs purifi. , Nad m33 and nad c399 have same warranty.
NAD and morantz have real warranty :) since it will be written as company expense/ accountant i want to have the latest model since i have never bought any amp for my home... Resale value is imporatnt we live in war in the eu. so not sure when its time to sale it.
 

Galliardist

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 26, 2021
Messages
2,558
Likes
3,273
Location
Sydney. NSW, Australia
This is quite the agonising process!

The M33 has DIRAC for bass built in, which is what you actually need. It has the Purifi modules you wanted back when you were claiming the other NAD products were crap. It has BluOS and AirPlay (you wanted AirPlay from your phone a few dozen posts ago, remember?). It has touchscreen and better remote.
The C399 requires an add in card to do, well, some of those things.

Most importantly, you can buy it.

If the war ever reaches Bulgaria, an EU member and a NATO member, it will be full scale world war and you'll have a damn sight more to worry about than the resale value of your amp, as will we all. Who's going to buy it at that point?

But in our part of the world, which is what I can talk about (as opposed to yours where you'll have to check yourself), any NAD product with an M in the name holds its value better than a product with a C in the name. The loss in value the moment you first take it out of the box is pretty high with any amp, of course.

And if you can hear the difference between the two amps in a controlled blind test we'll all be shocked. In the real world the sound waves in your room will have no audible difference with either amp.

So it's up to you which one of these amps you buy. In the real world, it comes down to the facilities you want and when you want the amp in your hands by: not resale value, not some inaudible difference in output, not whether the amp was put on the market in 2020 or 2021

The appropriate English saying is "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush", I believe. I'd take the amp you can buy over the one that might arrive in six months' time.

I don't think I have anything else to add now. Again, whatever you decide, good luck.
 
OP
D

Deleted member 51459

Guest
M33 and c399 , have same dirac implemented from nad, its basic dirac not a full frequency one.its with limited badwitch..
c399 of course i will get with blu os card and it will have again airplay and, same things and it will be at least 1400$ cheaper with included blue os card, compared to m33.. i really doesnt care about touch screen, its mizerable lcd screen which i can compare to screens back in year 1990s its not even a amoled or ips lcd...
for 1400$ you can buy 55 inch or more full /flagship oled tv... not some small mizerable lcd screen...
thats a rip off.

i can get the c399 and put the other money in my savings accounts for example 1400$ its not much but again better than 00 right?

Do anyone heard both amps blind tested or not blind tested are there any noticable difference ?
According to recovering audiophiliac in youtube there is not much difference if any at all?
 

Joe Smith

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
982
Likes
1,027
This thread just makes my head hurt. Getting good sound just does not have to be so hard. Or expensive. A balanced system approach and one that's right for the current living environment (and non-crazy-making for any neighbors) is the most important thing to keep in mind. You bought the speakers and they have some specific power needs. Feed them properly. There are plenty of choices that don't need to drain your finances.

As to sound: The still photo is a little unclear, but I'm not seeing a cross-tie piece between the woofer and mid/tweet jacks. Is it possible that that fell out? Read your manual but most of the bi-ampable speakers I know of have a cross tie or jumper that needs to be in place when only using one amp connection... Ah, in the video, it looks like you are bi-wiring the speaker, so that should be OK with no cross-tie.
 
Top Bottom