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How to find the difference in two recordings taken from same source?

UltraFine

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Jan 18, 2023
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Hello all,

I am looking for a way to compare two different recordings (samples) of the same vinyl record in an audio software and find out what the difference is. I can hear the difference, but I want to know in which frequency range it is exactly.

Details:
My brother and I, we are trying to digitize some of our vinyl records. To do this, we are using a Technics turntable, which delivers the sound to a USB interface Scarlett 2i2, via an EELA Audio 804 pre-amp. The Scarlett delivers the signal into a Windows PC.

The problem:
In my opinion, all recordings made with the system described above have a distinct "coloration" . They sound somehow slightly dull, lifeless, as if some frequency range is reduced. I hear it clearly in the headphones, but my brother claims that this is normal. Now I got vinyl rips from other people as well as digital versions of some tracks and compared them by listening test. I hear the coloration clearly. My brother does not want to see it however. I want to show him therefore it black on white.
In order to be able to grasp the difference better, I merged small samples in a WAV file, in order to be able to make a fast A/B hearing test. I attach three MP3 files as an example: A-B-Test.Vinyl.Ripp.zip. The samples are more or less the same content, just from different recordings. B version is ours.

Addendum: I have uploaded a collection with full tracks in FLAC and ready to go samples here.

Question:
I am looking for a way to use software to "overlay" the samples and see in which frequency range the difference is. The samples are from the same original. Which software would accomplish that?


Cheers
 

Attachments

  • A-B-Test.Vinyl.Ripp.zip
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Hello all,

I am looking for a way to compare two different recordings (samples) of the same vinyl record in an audio software and find out what the difference is. I can hear the difference, but I want to know in which frequency range it is exactly.

Details:
My brother and I, we are trying to digitize some of our vinyl records. To do this, we are using a Technics turntable, which delivers the sound to a USB interface Scarlett 2i2, via an EELA Audio 804 pre-amp. The Scarlett delivers the signal into a Windows PC.

The problem:
In my opinion, all recordings made with the system described above have a distinct "coloration" . They sound somehow slightly dull, lifeless, as if some frequency range is reduced. I hear it clearly in the headphones, but my brother claims that this is normal. Now I got vinyl rips from other people as well as digital versions of some tracks and compared them by listening test. I hear the coloration clearly. My Burder does not want to see it however. I want to show him therefore it black on white.
In order to be able to grasp the difference better, I merged small samples in a WAV file, in order to be able to make a fast A/B hearing test. I attach three MP3 files as an example: A-B-Test.Vinyl.Ripp.zip
The samples are more or less the same content, just from different recordings. B version is ours.

Question:
I am looking for a way to use software to "overlay" the samples and see in which frequency range the difference is. The samples are from the same original. Which software would accomplish that?


Cheers
Might this work?


BTW. How are you ensuring you don’t clip the 2i2? What do you use as recording software? What input of the 2i2 are you using?
 
Might this work?


BTW. How are you ensuring you don’t clip the 2i2? What do you use as recording software? What input of the 2i2 are you using?
Good question.
I am using Vinyl Studio.
For now I dont ensure that it does not clip. I just hear the difference between my rip and other peoples rip of the same source vinyl. So now I am looking for a tool measure that difference, to know what exaclty is the delta. Delta Wave is hell of a tool. Will need to read the manual, I suppose.
 
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Good question.
I am using Vinyl Studio.
For now I dont ensure that it does not clip. I just hear the difference between my rip and other peoples rip of the same source vinyl. So now I am looking for a tool measure that difference, to know what exaclty is the delta. Delta Wave is hell of a tool. Will need to read the manual, I suppose.
Ok.

Ensure it does not clip. The 2i2 comes with Ableton Live Basic. This gives you very good control of your recording level so you don’t clip.
The 2i2 allows up to 9.8V eff of input into its Line input which have an impedance of 60kOhm and a gain of 56dB. Meaning you can widely adjust it to (almost) whatever input signal you supply. The line input is connected via a 6.3mm jack (not XLR which is for mic). See the manual.

What is the output level of the vinyl player? Do you need the amp in between?


As for DeltaWave the programmer @pkane is a member here and might be able to answer your questions.
 
Ok.

Ensure it does not clip. The 2i2 comes with Ableton Live Basic. This gives you very good control of your recording level so you don’t clip.
The 2i2 allows up to 9.8V eff of input into its Line input which have an impedance of 60kOhm and a gain of 56dB. Meaning you can widely adjust it to (almost) whatever input signal you supply. The line input is connected via a 6.3mm jack (not XLR which is for mic). See the manual.

What is the output level of the vinyl player? Do you need the amp in between?


As for DeltaWave the programmer @pkane is a member here and might be able to answer your questions.

Thanks for your explanation.

My vinyl player is Technics SL-1210MK2.

Just to warn you, I am not a technical user (yet). I am guy who likes music and buys vinyl. I dont understand the technical numbers immediatly without explanation.

I bought the Scarlet 2i2 in the hope to produce better recordings than I would get with my PC-Soundcard and have an option to connect a mic sometime later, if I wanted to. Yes, I use the XLR inputs (left and right separatly) to connect to Scarlet. I am not sure, I understand you correctly. The 6.3mm jack on Scarlet 2i2 is an OUTPUT for Headphone, to monitor the sound. Taken from here: https://manuals.plus/focusrite/scarlett-2i2-manual. In my understanding Scarlet 2i2 has only the XLR-INPUTs.
I have a friend who could sell me his older license of Adobe Audition, if needed.

1674115705293.png
 
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It might be hard to sync up two different vinyl recordings.
I am not sure, I explained it correctly. I have two recordings of the same song. One is ripped by person A with some system, the other by me with my system. The source is the same though. For simplicity I cut out samples (5-6 seconds) of the same place in the track where the difference in sonud quality is very apparent. Now I am looking for a method how to analyse those two samples to see delta in sound. I want to figure out analytically why my rip (B) sounds off or differently.
I suppose it can be done easily with some spectrogramm tool, I just dont know how exactly.
 
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Even without synching Deltawave can show frequency response of each which is probably where you are hearing the difference.
Yes, I thought exactly the same. I tried to look at frequency response of both samples. But the problem is when I have two frequency responce graphs near each other, I still dont clearly see the difference. I thought someone might know a method to somehow overlay them or something.
That would show that the second sample (B) is off (reduced) in the range of 8khz to 10khz (as an example).
 
Yes, I thought exactly the same. I tried to look at frequency response of both samples. But the problem is when I have two frequency responce graphs near each other, I still dont clearly see the difference. I thought someone might know a method to somehow overlay them or something.
That would show that the second sample (B) is off (reduced) in the range of 8khz to 10khz (as an example).
Can you attach some FLAC files instead of MP3. Just zip them up, keep them short, the 5 or 6 seconds should be enough. Do that and I can likely help.
 
Thanks for your explanation.

My vinyl player is Technics SL-1210MK2.

Just to warn you, I am not a technical user (yet). I am guy who likes music and buys vinyl. I dont understand the technical numbers immediatly without explanation.

I bought the Scarlet 2i2 in the hope to produce better recordings than I would get with my PC-Soundcard and have an option to connect a mic sometime later, if I wanted to. Yes, I use the XLR inputs (left and right separatly) to connect to Scarlet. I am not sure, I understand you correctly. The 6.3mm jack on Scarlet 2i2 is an OUTPUT for Headphone, to monitor the sound. Taken from here: https://manuals.plus/focusrite/scarlett-2i2-manual. In my understanding Scarlet 2i2 has only the XLR-INPUTs.
I have a friend who could sell me his older license of Adobe Audition, if needed.

View attachment 258242
Not exactly. Look at the manual. The front connectors combine two ways of connector types, XLR (3kOhm) and 6.3mm jack (60kOhm) which goes into the center. The 2i2 applies a different gain and impedance whether you use XLR or the jack. You have to use a 6.3mm jack plugged into the front inputs. Secondly you adjust the gain so the green light just comes on once in a while when recording. In eg Ableton you can monitor also if the signal does not clip (stay ca 6dB below 0dB).

What does your preamp do? Is it a phono preamp? Or does the Technics has a phono preamp included?

(The 2i2 is a very capable (low noise -110dB and distortion -93dB) device - you just need to learn to use it correctly. I have the 4i4).
 
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EELA Audio 804 pre-amp

The phono preamp appears to have balanced line output transformers- likely 600R. How are you terminating them into the 2i2 interface? which connector? (TRS or XLR and which selection)

Your phono preamp:

au5729dtrxzn3lb67uae.jpg
 
Definitely a difference at the high and low end looking at the MP3s. I can probably be more specific, but it is large enough to see just taking a look at the FFT for each track.
 
Hi Guys

One thing you might try is Audacity. I do not know if it would work, but the the video seems to suggest it will. Please note this is not about the device that he is testing but rather his use of Audacity to detect a difference between recordings. Obviously it is towards the end of the video. As Audacity is free itmight just do what you are trying to. The biggest thing seems to be getting the two recordings aligned, but I guess this is just practice.

Hope this helps Regards
Pegwill

 
Don't pay attention to the results at the bottom, they aren't lined up well. However displayed is the original spectrums.

Blue is the 1st part of the vocal part and white is the 2nd. So quite a droop above 1 khz for the 2nd or B part. And below 200hz there is a droop in the part as well. Whether A or B is right, not sure, but they are going to sound different.

1674130270272.png
 
I lined them up a bit better and made it so you can see the difference a little better here. Looks like the B versions starts a roll off at 3 khz and is down some 10-12 db by 12 khz. This is the right channel. The left channel droops in the same place on B, but only about half as much.

1674131430457.png
 
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