How Should I A/B Test DACs?

[richard12511]

If that is the case, is the advice you would give to the prospective DAC buyer, just go with objective reviews online like this site instead of comparing products themselves? Does this also apply to other hardware like amps, headphones and speakers?

My advice would be to go with the cheapest DAC that has all of the inputs and outputs you need. Most people probably don't even need an external DAC, as most electronic devices have internal DACs that are already perfect to beyond the limits of human hearing. So, my first advice would be to consider whether you really need an external DAC at all. If there are devices or formats that you can't use without it, or you want a box that looks cool, then sure, but if you're looking for a DAC to improve the sound of your system, my advice would be to spend that money on something that can actually do that(like speakers, subs, room eq, or room acoustics).

Ignore DAC reviews that talk about sound quality, as all well made DACs sound the same. Differences that people hear are due to differences in state of mind, and not actual sound differences. It's for this reason that a DAC comparison must be done blind. If you do the comparison sighted, you will hear differences(almost guaranteed), but (assuming both DACs aren't trash) those differences will be imaginary differences created by your brain 99.99% of the time.

 

[tejman]

Ok thanks everyone, really puts things into perspective!

consider whether you really need an external DAC at all

Yes, but the bar is set way lower than most people are willing to admit

this is the crux of my quest. Where is that minimum?

It’s seems like from my experience, the AD18 and E17k vary quite a bit in final audio quality (and volume) with the DT770 headphones. Based on the info I found, neither will provide the close to the power necessary to drive my cans (>60mW @250ohm for 110dB). So I went ahead and purchased a solid amp (Atom). Because both of my amps are also DACs I figured that may play a role as well.

AD18* is tier 4 and E17K is tier 3** (for DACs). I wanted to test to see if either of those can be significantly be improved upon. I also have my PC and chromecast that I could “test” as a DAC. Would all that was said above about not being able to hear the difference between DACs likely apply to these devices as well? Or only higher tier DACs let’s say?

I would much rather not buy a DAC, unless I really need the features/connectivity or there is significant audio quality to be gained. Hence the questions about how to test that

*AD18 has no line out to be used as just a DAC so that is just theoretical
**E17K isn't reviewed by amirm but I was using the FiiO Q1 Mk2 as a proxy.
.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Are you saying this even if one were to ABX testing? If so, then what reason is there to buy any device over another? I assume there must be some minimum of quality where you can hear obvious differences. But maybe my anecdotal experience is leading me astray.

You will find different opinions about this, but generally speaking DACs sound very similar, and you will probably be better off putting the extra money in better speakers.

 

[RayDunzl]

Where is that minimum?

Let's assume SINAD is a useful measure of "sound quality".

If you have the ability to attenuate your signal by a specified number of decibels, try this little test...

Listen at your normal level.

Then attenuate by, oh, let's say 54dB - the SINAD of the worst measured DAC so far.

Listen some more, this representing the level that noise or harmonics might create with a -54dB SINAD at your usual listening level.

If the level of what you hear would be annoying during the regular level program, try a different number.

-87dB is the bottom of the orange choices, -97dB is the bottom of the "green" choices, and -107dB is the bottom of the top tier..

 

[Killingbeans]

this is the crux of my quest. Where is that minimum?

AD18* is tier 4 and E17K is tier 3** (for DACs). I wanted to test to see if either of those can be significantly be improved upon. I also have my PC and chromecast that I could “test” as a DAC. Would all that was said above about not being able to hear the difference between DACs likely apply to these devices as well? Or only higher tier DACs let’s say?

The minimum probably hasn't been reached in any of the DACs that's been tested on ASR so far. That's why you don't see Amir do listening tests on them (... I would assume). There hasn't been any reason to do so.

It’s seems like from my experience, the AD18 and E17k vary quite a bit in final audio quality (and volume) with the DT770 headphones. Based on the info I found, neither will provide the close to the power necessary to drive my cans (>60mW @250ohm for 110dB). So I went ahead and purchased a solid amp (Atom). Because both of my amps are also DACs I figured that may play a role as well.

Yes, lack of power and strange impedance interactions in headphone amps do give obvious differences, but the DAC itself has very little to say.

I would much rather not buy a DAC, unless I really need the features/connectivity or there is significant audio quality to be gained.

Then just use the Atom and be happy