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How Phono Cartridges Work

watchnerd

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Removable headshells can reduce rigidity and add resonance to the cartridge output. The "SME" type is very sensitive to how tight the collar is from my old measurements. I would guess the EMT is too because it is similar. There are SME shells now with two draw-pins which should be better if accurately enough made.
Whether reduced rigidity is a problem depends on the modal behaviour of the whole thing which is generally an unknown. It may or may not be...
I have no doubt they reduce rigidity. On the other hand, I can use different headshells with different weights to try to get the total effective mass into the sweet spot for matching cart compliance.

And the ability to quickly swap carts has a huge entertainment value for me; I like using mono carts on mono records.
 

DonH56

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I always hate these kind of pissing contests... What I find sad is when folk resort to attacking and demeaning each other in public over something like this.

The vast majority of engineering is not published IME/IMO (beyond basic principles and academia), and the expertise gained by experts often resides in their own experience and knowledge base. I am glad my professional reputation does not depend upon defending every well-established engineering principle to a flock of internet denizens eager to dispute every point and then decrying my lack of basis because I cannot, or am simply unwilling to, point to freely-available published research. I spent much of my career doing very neat things that were never published (some were, and many are in the bowels of some gov't think-tank archives). Often the demand is to prove something very basic and covered in any college textbook, albeit specific to the subject and specialty (e.g. Ohm's Law is actually a more complicated formula than the basic form always presented), or complicated enough that pointing to one or even a few resources is challenging and rarely worth it. Explaining something that took a semester or a lifetime to learn is tough in a post or two.

Another recent debate for me was over whether passive bi-amping can actually improve headroom -- it can, and I took a stab at proving it, but the other party stood on an old and inapplicable FTC amplifier test standard without understanding its shortcomings. I offered to simulate it but he pointed out that was not the real world and was no proof to him. I said to read any college opamp or amplifier book and even gave examples but he insisted I didn't know what I was talking about, had no papers to prove it, could not show lab studies, etc. I don't have a lab study to prove the sun is hot, either, but believe my physics professors and the black body experiments done in college -- for which I also have no proof, of course. Maybe we're all idiots. But now I have a guy saying I essentially don't know what I'm talking about because I have not published a paper and questioning if I even have a degree (I do, but have no real desire to post all of my info on an internet forum -- the government and other companies have done a fine job of releasing my identity as it is -- and my offer to share privately was denied; probably a good thing as I am not sure I would trust the guy with it).

Things get out of hand too easily when not face to face, no real checks and balances on the exchange, no visible feedback to know the feelings and intent of the other party, etc. As a means for personal communication the Internet often sucks.

Still, there are some experts on internet fora, and plenty of very competent amateurs. Amateur meaning you do it for love, does not imply incompetence or a lack of knowledge, but there is a wide range of expertise from both professionals and amateurs. It is very hard to maintain composure when your established knowledge base and/or long-held personal belief and experiences are questioned and subsequently thrown under the bus (things I think apply to both parties, and often to all parties).

Ah, well, apologies for the long post, put our 17 year old lab down yesterday and feeling very melancholy today. :(
 

TBone

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You're right Don, we have a very different view of 1 particular subject matter, we have more in common than we differ. Hence ... Frank, Im sorry for all my implications.
 

Sal1950

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Glad you enjoyed it.
So ... Sal, allow me to provide just the opposite ...
Sorry, Didn't mean to piss you off, I was just trying to lighten the mood.
 

Sal1950

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Ah, well, apologies for the long post, put our 17 year old lab down yesterday and feeling very melancholy today. :(
Ouch, that really hurts. Sorry to hear that Don.
 

TBone

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Sal, I was furious, well not really, I came across ruff ... but as a dog lover ... well, a hobby is just a hobby and being somewhat of an "expert" on puppies, I know that pain, past eating half my house once and assorted other tails ... i certainly loved all my past dogs.
 
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Just want to go back a bit and discuss turntables. It's something that really interests me but is so hard to make a decision on. High mass/low mass or suspended? Unipivot or gimbal arm? Aluminium, delrin, glass or vinyl platter? Belt or direct drive? All these things to choose and all different price points but such little objective data it's almost impossible to choose. I've had a few tables so far. Pro-Ject Debut Carbon, Well Tempered Simplex, Rega RP3 and VPI Classic. All had their advantages and disadvantages and I couldn't live with any of them forever. Really searching for something I'll be happy with for good.
 

watchnerd

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Just want to go back a bit and discuss turntables. It's something that really interests me but is so hard to make a decision on. High mass/low mass or suspended? Unipivot or gimbal arm? Aluminium, delrin, glass or vinyl platter? Belt or direct drive? All these things to choose and all different price points but such little objective data it's almost impossible to choose. I've had a few tables so far. Pro-Ject Debut Carbon, Well Tempered Simplex, Rega RP3 and VPI Classic. All had their advantages and disadvantages and I couldn't live with any of them forever. Really searching for something I'll be happy with for good.
What were the cartridges?

And what didn't you like?
 
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Ortofon 2M Red, Dynavector DV10X5, Dynavector DV20X2L, Benz MC Silver, Denon DL-110, Nagaoka MP-110.

Pro-Ject was entry level. Didn't like no VTA and it had a lot of sibilance. Hated the anti-skate mechanism. No external speed control was annoying. It was fine for the price.

Well Tempered was very good sounding. Dead quiet. I hated that it had no arm lift and dust cover and it was insanely over priced. Over $2k for an MDF table with a golf ball and squash balls in its construction. It was laughable really but boy did it sound good. If it had an arm lift and dust cover included in the price I'd probably buy another one. No sibilance but did develop hum after a while.

Rega was an excellent table. I used it with a TT-PSU. Not as good sounding as the Well Tempered but decent. Very convenient with dust cover and external speed change. Don't like the glass platter, mat was a static magnet, arm finish was a bit rubbish. No VTA sucks and adding spacers means you can't use the dust cover. Best value though IMO. No sibilance ever.

VPI Classic was a bit noisy in operation. Hummed, squeaked and felt a little unfinished in certain places. Anti-skate was a pain and couldn't get rid of sibilance. Arm was a bit fiddly and I was never totally happy with the sound. Just not for me. No dust cover was a pain.
 

watchnerd

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Ortofon 2M Red, Dynavector DV10X5, Dynavector DV20X2L, Benz MC Silver, Denon DL-110, Nagaoka MP-110.

Pro-Ject was entry level. Didn't like no VTA and it had a lot of sibilance. Hated the anti-skate mechanism. No external speed control was annoying. It was fine for the price.

Well Tempered was very good sounding. Dead quiet. I hated that it had no arm lift and dust cover and it was insanely over priced. Over $2k for an MDF table with a golf ball and squash balls in its construction. It was laughable really but boy did it sound good. If it had an arm lift and dust cover included in the price I'd probably buy another one. No sibilance but did develop hum after a while.

Rega was an excellent table. I used it with a TT-PSU. Not as good sounding as the Well Tempered but decent. Very convenient with dust cover and external speed change. Don't like the glass platter, mat was a static magnet, arm finish was a bit rubbish. No VTA sucks and adding spacers means you can't use the dust cover. Best value though IMO. No sibilance ever.

VPI Classic was a bit noisy in operation. Hummed, squeaked and felt a little unfinished in certain places. Anti-skate was a pain and couldn't get rid of sibilance. Arm was a bit fiddly and I was never totally happy with the sound. Just not for me. No dust cover was a pain.
Lots of sibilance remarks...that's not really a "turntable" issue so much as a cartridge / alignment issue.
 

watchnerd

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I agree but I have always been meticulous in my set up. I definitely notice more sibilance with the cheaper MM carts though.
It's more likely to be related to stylus shape than the fact that it's MM/MC.

But, again, if sibilance is your main complaint that's not the fault of the turntable part of the system. So switching to a new TT to cure sibilance is an odd way to try to fix it.

And. no offense, it's hard to be hyper meticulous in set up with some of the arms on the decks you mentioned.

Maybe vinyl just isn't for you?

But if you want to take another go at it, have you considered the new Technics SL-1200GR? The turntable part is about as good as one can get for it's main job (turning a platter at a constant speed), the SNR, wow, flutter specs are world class. The arm is okay, arguably better than the RP3 arm, but you can replace it with a more upscale and adjustable arm.
 

Frank Dernie

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Ortofon 2M Red, Dynavector DV10X5, Dynavector DV20X2L, Benz MC Silver, Denon DL-110, Nagaoka MP-110.

Pro-Ject was entry level. Didn't like no VTA and it had a lot of sibilance. Hated the anti-skate mechanism. No external speed control was annoying. It was fine for the price.

Well Tempered was very good sounding. Dead quiet. I hated that it had no arm lift and dust cover and it was insanely over priced. Over $2k for an MDF table with a golf ball and squash balls in its construction. It was laughable really but boy did it sound good. If it had an arm lift and dust cover included in the price I'd probably buy another one. No sibilance but did develop hum after a while.

Rega was an excellent table. I used it with a TT-PSU. Not as good sounding as the Well Tempered but decent. Very convenient with dust cover and external speed change. Don't like the glass platter, mat was a static magnet, arm finish was a bit rubbish. No VTA sucks and adding spacers means you can't use the dust cover. Best value though IMO. No sibilance ever.

VPI Classic was a bit noisy in operation. Hummed, squeaked and felt a little unfinished in certain places. Anti-skate was a pain and couldn't get rid of sibilance. Arm was a bit fiddly and I was never totally happy with the sound. Just not for me. No dust cover was a pain.
I have several turntables. Most of the ones available today are little different from the Well Tempered in terms of mark-up, but just not as obviously.
From an engineering and performance standpoint the well tempered is one of the best turntables at any price, particularly the arm.
I have a turntable which is not supplied with a dust cover and I got a local company to make me one.
Having worked on turntables a lot over the last 50 years I find it very annoying how much of a rip off the prices are nowadays for many of them.
 

watchnerd

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I have several turntables. Most of the ones available today are little different from the Well Tempered in terms of mark-up, but just not as obviously.
From an engineering and performance standpoint the well tempered is one of the best turntables at any price, particularly the arm.
I have a turntable which is not supplied with a dust cover and I got a local company to make me one.
Having worked on turntables a lot over the last 50 years I find it very annoying how much of a rip off the prices are nowadays for many of them.
Do you think they're more of a rip off at the low or high end? Where is the price point of not a rip off these days?
 

watchnerd

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Do any of you consider the PLX-1000 to be a good buy?

https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-4

It's 1/3 of the price of the SL1200GR in Australia.
If you're going to replace the arm, the PLX-1000 is a smart, economical choice.

But you're not going to get as much online community support as you get from the thousands of Technics fans and all the people who make after market goodies for it.

And if you want blingy gold, it's the only choice:

 

Sal1950

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I could never live with that fugly speed slider. yuck. No DD's for that matter.
Give me a good old Linn, etc. Belt drive and suspended decks only need apply.
Hell, I'll take a beautiful old Empire fully rehabed and an upgraded arm, gorgeous!
(And real glass on the cover panels, not cheap plastic that scratched and turned yellow after a few years


 
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