How NOT to set up speakers and room treatment ( Goldensound)

[Galliardist]

ok you take the 24 year old to perform surgery on you. I’ll take the one with a bit more experience and doing more surgeries.

or sell that line to your employer at 24 . Please tell me their reaction.

So how do you think an intern or junior in their mid 20s gets surgical experience? You may well have already had surgery performed by a younger person.

And what do you think having a PhD actually means?

If our 24 year old had already treated 50 rooms, some under supervision and some alone, with a good qualification and had contributed practical new knowledge in tbe field, would you take in preference a fifty year old who had done 75 rooms but is unqualified, or one with a PhD but had done no practical work?

 

[Vuki]

So how do you think an intern or junior in their mid 20s gets surgical experience? You may well have already had surgery performed by a younger person.

And what do you think having a PhD actually means?

If our 24 year old had already treated 50 rooms, some under supervision and some alone, with a good qualification and had contributed practical new knowledge in tbe field, would you take in preference a fifty year old who had done 75 rooms but is unqualified, or one with a PhD but had done no practical work?

And it bothers you so much because you usually get serious scientific info from YouTube?

 

[tuga]

And it bothers you so much because you usually get serious scientific info from YouTube?

 

[Nkam]

So how do you think an intern or junior in their mid 20s gets surgical experience? You may well have already had surgery performed by a younger person.

And what do you think having a PhD actually means?

If our 24 year old had already treated 50 rooms, some under supervision and some alone, with a good qualification and had contributed practical new knowledge in tbe field, would you take in preference a fifty year old who had done 75 rooms but is unqualified, or one with a PhD but had done no practical work?

I don’t even know what you are arguing.

like I said. When a plumber comes to your house and says “ hey I’ve only installed a sink once , but don’t let those plumbers with degrees and years of experience fool you, I can do this “

you hire him man. More power to you

 

[amirm]

Well, his preference is his. Since when is individual preference not allowed?

I already answered this: when you start to preach what others should do, you darn better know most people will have that preference. That's beside the fact that you are assuming this is his preference. People just follow the Lemmings online in thinking side reflections are bad and go and absorb them. And then convince themselves they have done something good.

 

[Sokel]

I maybe want to see the broader picture and even if I don't agree with his approach (to be honest my installers don't,as a classical music listener with a room that can never go under 500ms in my single MLP) the fact that a 24yo is interested and his similar age followers will get interest too is a plus to me.
This hobby is about to die if we as old grumps dismiss everyone who at least tries.

Ok,intentions matter,there's obviously some money interest to it (not bad at all to it,money's not bad) but as long as it's not preached as a gospel and the audience is adult people free to make their own choices...

 

[amirm]

A 26-strong sample, that's almost 4x larger than Toole's 'Quad 63 vs. Kef 105.2 vs. Rega Model 3' effects of directivity sample.
Still, is that statistically significant?

Either you didn't read what I quoted or don't know how you assess statistical significance. The answer was right in there. If you don't know what statistical significance means, then ask that.

 

[tuga]

Either you didn't read what I quoted or don't know how you assess statistical significance. The answer was right in there. If you don't know what statistical significance means, then ask that.

I don't have access to the paper but you've mentioned it previously (which is how I was able to post a screenshot, your screenshot).
Are you saying that there's no relation between statistical significance and sample size?

 

[Galliardist]

A 26-strong sample, that's almost 4x larger than Toole's 'Quad 63 vs. Kef 105.2 vs. Rega Model 3' effects of directivity sample.
Still, is that statistically significant?

Sample size doesn’t exist in isolation. Consider for example qualitative research, studies with a high degree of prior knowledge, or to be more extreme, how many of a particular model of aircraft have to drop out of the sky before you have to look for the cause.

 

[JSmith]

He sounds exactly like the Goldenear guy. Voice, accent, rise and fall, intonation.

Same dude for sure

Yes... he states same @1:12;

JSmith

 

[tuga]

Sample size doesn’t exist in isolation. Consider for example qualitative research, studies with a high degree of prior knowledge, or to be more extreme, how many of a particular model of aircraft have to drop out of the sky before you have to look for the cause.

I doubt that you'd get a new drug approved with a 26no. or even 260no. sample...

 

[Galliardist]

I don’t even know what you are arguing.

like I said. When a plumber comes to your house and says “ hey I’ve only installed a sink once , but don’t let those plumbers with degrees and years of experience fool you, I can do this “

you hire him man. More power to you

Plumbers with degrees?

And every single plumber had to start somewhere. Usually they get a practical qualification or apprenticeship from others with more experience and practical knowledge, as well as being taught the necessary theory. All that can be done by the age of 24.

The issue is not age. The issue is practical knowledge.

 

[restorer-john]

Honestly, I think it's wonderful that a passionate 24yo has access to an APX-555B, reasonable and evolving knowledge on how to use it and is reviewing, testing and commenting on a bunch of gear.

He's worked out how to get someone else to pay for it all, has a small legion of followers/sponsors and has an excellent presentation, technical production and the perfect voice for what he is distributing on Youtube.

The interest and pursuit of High Fidelity reproduction going forward (after we are sent to pasture) needs new blood. Nobody is perfect, but I'd rather see him evolve, than some of the other pretenders take over.

 

[GaryH]

I’d like to know.
what are this persons credentials??
i can buy expensive speakers ? is that a credential?
does he have any audio experience? Or all those 20 somethings on Headphones . Com? Oh wait I forgot they sell headphones as well.

been to concert halls ? Had years and years of experience?


nope.
zero, zilch. No credentials whatsoever.

but here I’m gonna tell you how to treat your room.

Their whole channel, forum and Discord server are full of pseudoscience and misinformation like this confidently-incorrectly spouted as if they're experts from their amateur hobbyists. They're salesmen, marketing either their ad revenue-making YouTube channel, the headphone and audio gear they sell on headphones.com / by collaborators they sponsor, or their fringe pet theories on sound reproduction of headphones / speakers without presenting a shred of valid direct evidence in the form of controlled blind listening tests to back them.

 

[goat76]

You read what I wrote wrong. I said the same thing. Than a thin absorber only acts on reflected high frequencies. So it has an effect of just EQing the signal and taking out some of the highs. So in that sense the filtering it does is leaning toward high frequencies. Not that the effect is that.

That's why you should start making measurements, then look at the measurement to know what type of absorbers the room needs to even out the reverberation time over the frequency spectrum. It's not a good idea to add absorbers that will mostly be effective for a frequency area that is already in control, that should be obvious to most people.

For most of us, it's not easy to address the lowest part of the frequency spectrum with acoustic treatments, especially in a normal room we like to keep that way, so that’s where EQ becomes handy.

If we have a speaker with a flat response, it's probably not a great idea to alter the direct sound trying to solve an uneven reverberation time in the mid or high-frequency bands.

And yes, I know Toole’s view on the matter. His view is that our hearing gets used to the room acoustics after a short time and we “hear thru” the problems. While I think that's true, in my experience my listening room has gotten better with every acoustic treatment I’ve thrown at it (after making measurements to make sure what was needed).

 

[FrankW]

I don't 'start' a discussion, I merely raise the issue when the research is used as 'truth'.

That's never how research is used. It's as Toole will tell you, evidence. The very thing you have none of in your lash outs.

 

[Galliardist]

Honestly, I think it's wonderful that a passionate 24yo has access to an APX-555B, reasonable and evolving knowledge on how to use it and is reviewing, testing and commenting on a bunch of gear.

He's worked out how to get someone else to pay for it all, has a small legion of followers/sponsors and has an excellent presentation, technical production and the perfect voice for what he is distributing on Youtube.

The interest and pursuit of High Fidelity reproduction going forward (after we are sent to pasture) needs new blood. Nobody is perfect, but I'd rather see him evolve, than some of the other pretenders take over.

The new people need to learn from the right experienced people.

 

[FrankW]

Good question: no in-room from this Stereophile review but you can see something of the same rolloff:

That's his speakers???
So start with a horrible off axis speaker (a well established timbral coloration etc), then plaster the sidewalls with gauze.
Makes perfect studio-audiophile sense

 

[Axo1989]

Plumbers with degrees?

And every single plumber had to start somewhere. Usually they get a practical qualification or apprenticeship from others with more experience and practical knowledge, as well as being taught the necessary theory. All that can be done by the age of 24.

The issue is not age. The issue is practical knowledge.

Sometimes the fresher knowledge is better. Since we are talking tradespeople, getting them in to help fix/finish the house my dad started was instructive. The crusty old electrician starting writing his lay-up on the frame in permanent marker and drilling holes. No mate, it's post-and-beam, we're going to see all that f*cking mess. The twenty-something dude came in with nice brown surface-mounted conduit channels and things that snapped together and did very tidy work. Age wasn't the key factor.

 

[goat76]

Tooles method is based on evolution.
our brains need spatial cues to locate sound.
its called Evolutionary science.

he is not saying anything more or less

killing or treating all early reflections is counterintuitive to how our brains and ears evolved.

Is it the positions of the loudspeakers you want to locate in your listening room, or is it the spatial cues in the actual recording you want to hear?

For me, it's the latter. I want to get a clearer view of what’s in the recording, both the direct sounds of the instruments and the spatial cues of the recorded venue, both those things comes with the direct sound from the speakers. But with that said, I don't want to overdo it with too many treatments, some of the reflections from my listening environment will at least overlap/hide some of the flaws of the simplistic stereo system.