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How NOT to set up speakers and room treatment ( Goldensound)

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amirm

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I wrote this earlier. Here is Dr. Toole saying the same thing:

I suggest turning your statement around. "If home consumers start with well-designed loudspeakers room acoustics will be less of an issue - except at bass frequencies, where the room/loudspeaker/listener coupling dominates. Such loudspeakers now exist, and methods for refining bass performance are well understood.
 
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Nkam

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Haha, true, not furniture I'd like to keep in my house though. :)



The preferences of a cross-section of the population are interesting of course, as is that body of research. But obviously my preferences are of most interest to me. I've noticed people posting here with similar musical taste often express a similar preference for a (relatively) dry room, narrow directivity speakers etc, so I think there is something in that.



For the music I enjoy, I primarily want to hear the spatial cues encoded in the recording. I don't require much in the way of additional envelopment. I can make adjustments (open/close the side walls, adjust speaker toe-in) to increase/decrease side wall reflections (unusually, my room controls floor and ceiling reflections already) for different program material, which can also be interesting.



I expect Toole's room sounds very good playing the music he enjoys and set his system up for.

thats not how it works .
you aren't hearing different sounds. The reflections are from the direct and indirect waves.
the mixing engineer is mixing for speakers and keeping that all in mind.
he doesn’t mix for an anechoic chamber. Or headphones.
 

Axo1989

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thats not how it works .
you aren't hearing different sounds. The reflections are from the direct and indirect waves.
the mixing engineer is mixing for speakers and keeping that all in mind.
he doesn’t mix for an anechoic chamber. Or headphones.

You'll have to explain more clearly what it is that I said that you (think you) are responding to. There's a significant difference between somewhat dry vs anechoic, for example. On the headphone thing, I expect most people listen to music that way, so the mixing target (for popular music) would aim to work well for that type of listening.
 
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Nkam

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You'll have to explain more clearly what it is that I said that you (think you) are responding to. There's a significant difference between somewhat dry vs anechoic, for example. On the headphone thing, I expect most people listen to music that way, so the mixing target (for popular music) would aim to work well for that type of listening.

maybe for anything which was produced in the last 5 years.

but way less so for anything before that
 

Axo1989

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maybe for anything which was produced in the last 5 years.

but way less so for anything before that

The iPod arrived in 2001, and things changed very quickly after that, so I'd re-think your chronology. I don't know what music you listen to, however.
 

Somafunk

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How old Are you that you are still practicing tribalism in the form of kids in a sandbox and the new kid coming in to play?

sheesh. lol

You seem rather triggered by the fact a young 24yr old (Have you mentioned his age yet?, he's merely 24 don't ya know) has worn shorts in his video, at his age I would've loved to have such a room and equipment, don't care how he financed it whether that be bank of mum+dad/inheritance/work etc

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good springs to mind, I'm 50 and have a very similar room with minimal reflections contributing to the sound, I prefer a dry sound which works well for my choice of electronic music, I don't really listen to anything else in the solitary seat in my room.

All that matters is that he likes it.

You've gotta be amused at ASR when it goes on the attack over such an innocuos video
 

Axo1989

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You seem rather triggered by the fact a young 24yr old (Have you mentioned his age yet?, he's merely 24 don't ya know) has worn shorts in his video, at his age I would've loved to have such a room and equipment, don't care how he financed it whether that be bank of mum+dad/inheritance/work etc

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good springs to mind, I'm 50 and have a very similar room with minimal reflections contributing to the sound, I prefer a dry sound which works well for my choice of electronic music, I don't really listen to anything else in the solitary seat in my room.

All that matters is that he likes it.

You've gotta be amused at ASR when it goes on the attack over such an innocuos video

Are you saying he's 24? OMG !!! The horror ...
 

abdo123

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maybe for anything which was produced in the last 5 years.

but way less so for anything before that
Anything that uses samples (basically anything that isn't recorded in a venue) is recorded and mixed in usually a very dead environment. this has been going on since the 60s even.

No one wants noise from the other room next door or any of the issues that come from recording in a regular room in their recording. they want to be in control, not in the mercy of the room they're in and 'fix everything in post'. the fix everything in post mentality is for screen play, not for music.

your 5 years number makes zero sense.
Speaking of mixing rooms, formal study was done to see if there is preference for side wall absorption, diffusion or reflection when creating a mix in a controlled environment. Result was that it did not matter but when the testers were asked to express an opinion, most preferred a reflective side (painted drywall). From peer reviewed journal of AES paper, The Practical Effects of Lateral Energy in Critical Listening Environments

"2.1.1 Main Effects
The only statistically significant effect was Music F (2, 123) = 5.71, p = 0.0034. However, the main factor for this experiment, Treatment, was not found to be statistically significant F (2, 7.6) = 0.35, p = 0.7."

"2.3 Subjects’ Preference
After the experiment each subject was asked which acoustic treatment created the best listening condition for mixing. Eight (8) subjects decided it is Diffusion, seven (7) decided Absorption, and eleven (11) decided Reflection. We decided to test subjects’ level preference and variance performance based on that information (Fig. 11)."


View attachment 288953

So once again, we need to operate from the position that sidewalls are beneficial unless proven otherwise (in the case of listener). Instructing people to blindly absorb them is just wrong. What seems intuitive is just wrong here. Two ears and brain don't work in the way people imagine....

This is very interesting and i appreciate you sharing it.

While listener preference is nice and dandy, shouldn't we look at the room that makes the mixes that translate the best to other rooms and devices rather than what the mixer thinks in that room sounds best?

At the end of the day that's what a mixing room is for.
 

Somafunk

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Are you saying he's 24? OMG !!! The horror ...

Yep, my point exactly - how dare a 24yr old have such a system set up. At his age I was listening to my own music made by banging a tin can full of rice - and I bloody well enjoyed it.
 
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Nkam

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Not when he is pretending to be teaching this subject.

lol EXACTLY


he could come out with a video that says. “ hey fellas I made my first speaker room and this is how I like it”


not hey fellas “ this is a tutorial on room acoustics “
something people get actual degrees for
 

amirm

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While listener preference is nice and dandy, shouldn't we look at the room that makes the mixes that translate the best to other rooms and devices rather than what the mixer thinks in that room sounds best?
There has never been any research in this area. Everyone seems to claim something different. Folks got in a huge fight with me on greaslutz claiming Genelecs would not be as good as some other random monitor as far as "translation."
 

Somafunk

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Not when he is pretending to be teaching this subject.
Thats not what I took from it, he showed how he used a measuring mic and adjusted treatment around his room to suit. Is it perfect?, no, but it's a damn site better than it was.
 
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Nkam

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Yep, my point exactly - how dare a 24yr old have such a system set up. at his age I was listening my own music made by banging a tin can full of rice - and I bloody well enjoyed it.

who cares what kind of system he has??
lol

you guys must be really hurt that being 24 actually means you haven’t experienced that much.
thats a scientific fact Actually.

you want me to put him in the same category at Toole which earned his doctorate just because some 24 year old can make a nice looking vid??

ok go out and get a senior position at some place and tell them what you are telling me at 24. I’m sure they will agree with you.
lmao
 
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Geert

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You're new here. Use the search feature.

Tuga starts this discussion every 4 to 6 weeks,

Exactly. That's why a constructive approach would be for @tuga to start a dedicated topic where he explains is objections so we can discuss and maybe reach some conclusions. This is intended as a respectful suggestion, as Tuga has certain knowledge and I wouldn't accuse him of trolling.

Otherwise this is going to end in Amir creating a 'Toole is everything or nothing' master thread.
 
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Nkam

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Thats not what I took from it, he showed how he used a measuring mic and adjusted treatment around his room to suit. Is it perfect?, no, but it's a damn site better than it was.
did you see the title of the video?

or are we just making stuff up for arguments sake?
it literally says “ how to”
 

amirm

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Thats not what I took from it, he showed how he used a measuring mic and adjusted treatment around his room to suit. Is it perfect?, no, but it's a damn site better than it was.
To suit what? He showed ETC measurements and claimed those reflections needed to be eliminated. If that was his preference, then he should have stated it and indicated why.

This is a marketing material created and funded by headphones.com. No way is it just a random dude saying what he likes.
 
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Nkam

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Exactly. That's why a constructive approach would be for @tuga to start a dedicated topic where he explains is objections so we can discuss and maybe reach some conclusions. This is intended as a respectful suggestion, as Tuga has certain knowledge and I wouldn't accuse him of trolling.

Otherwise this is going to end in Amir creating a 'Toole is everything or nothing' master thread.

No I also posted a video from others who have years of experience in doing room treatments for a living.

the point being that, one room , all of a sudden glory is mine. I’m an expert.
 
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