How much power?

[cmdinslaken]

Hello everyone,
I'm new here and have one simple issue.
I run a WIIM AMP PRO on a pair of Triangle Australe EZ.
I'm fine with my setup, but always looking for improvement. So I came across the recomendation to raise power to at least 120 W or even 150 W in order to get the best outta my speakers....
I started to Google about it, asked AI and the manufacturers, got many different explanations and ended up confused.

The speakers have a labeled sensitivity of 92 dB/W/1m and 8 Ohm with a Maximum at 9.5 Ohm and a minimum at 3.7 Ohm (should be labeled 4 Ohm, right?). The amplifier delivers 60 W per channel at 8 Ohm, was very well reviewed here and some of you will know it.
The link below leads to some measurement of the speakers:

https://soundmediagroupau.s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_10/001607-0.jpg.f1abb6690398d12aaa5f67ba9b2b98a4.jpg

What do you guys think about it? Will a stronger amp improve the sound?

Thanx Chris

 

[Chr1]

It really depends on the size of your room and how loud you like to listen. If you are in a small room listening at low levels, what you have is probably fine. Anything else and you may benefit from more power.

 

[cmdinslaken]

It really depends on the size of your room and how loud you like to listen. If you are in a small room listening at low levels, what you have is probably fine. Anything else and you may benefit from more power.

The room ist 5x10 m and normal level is 40dB to a maximum peak of about 80 dB. Maybe 60 to 65 in general. Distance is 3m.

 

[Chr1]

I seem to remember coming accross a thread which contained a link to a site (Crown?) where you enter the relevant info and it will tell you how much power is needed.

Don't have time to search myself. Hopefully someone else here can help with a link.

 

[Sokel]

I seem to remember coming accross a thread which contained a link to a site (Crown?) where you enter the relevant info and it will tell you how much power is needed.

Don't have time to search myself. Hopefully someone else here can help with a link.

This one is nice (third one) :

Amplifier Output Calculator

Calculate an Audio Amplifier's output voltage and output current

benchmarkmedia.com

 

[Vincentponcet]

Amps and loudspeakers should be sized for peak level without distortion.
For thx, peak is 105db spl.
From that, you can use the calculator and you will have the power with low distortion your amp should be able to deliver.

 

[staticV3]

What do you guys think about it? Will a stronger amp improve the sound?

A stronger Amp will enable louder playback.

Set to the same volume as your WiiM Amp currently, the sound will be identical.

If you're struggling to get good loudness out of the WiiM Amp, try enabling the Sub output in the WiiM Home App.

Start with a low crossover frequency and then increase it step by step as you listen to changes in the sound.

Once the sound deteriorates, go back down one step and leave it there.

This way, you're making use of the WiiM's full power reserves and not wasting any down low where the Triangle won't play anyway.

 

[Multicore]

What do you guys think about it? Will a stronger amp improve the sound?

Only if you've run out of loudness with what you've got. Do you notice a deterioration in the sound quality when you listen loud relative to a little quieter?

 

[Clmrt]

Amps are like fancy wheels on cars. A shiny new set will make a lot of people much happier than what comes from the factory but nothing really changes when you're driving it to work in a traffic jam.

That said, I am an amp whore. I can't stop myself. Where I differ from the SINAD crowd is I appreciate older designs with proven performance, and I believe more available power is better as long as there are no negative effects in my listening experience.

I have 89db towers that run around 4 ohms through a couple of points in the audible range, but in a smaller 7m x 3m setting. After spending 6 months with a 60W class D amp with "enough power" I switched to an AB amp with five times more power. My brain instantly said "this is better." After 6 months, I don't feel the need to change anything anymore. The only improvement following that came from experimenting with speaker placement, adding a second sub, and making small adjustments over time.

Home audio is a very personal hobby. Science says all amps are the same. But sometimes that shiny new amp gives you that psychological effect of improvement like religion improves your outlook on life, and it feels good.

Buy a new amp. See if you like it.

As for power, you 'need' about 5 watts for 80 db at 3m with plenty of headroom available. To account for musical peaks, get 20db of headroom. Now you need 57 watts.

Maybe tubes?

 

[whereisbrian]

This calculator will be useful

Peak SPL Calculator

 

[cmdinslaken]

It's me again. I got 57 W per channel when I used the Crown-Calculator for my conditions. So anything seems to be ok. But now we have the new WIIM Vibelink with stunning 100 W per channel and 8 Ohm and I'm considering to go for it and pair it with the WIIM Ultra for a reasonable price.
Will I have a real benefit from it? Will I have an audible improvement?

What do you guys think about it?

 

[Svend P]

1. No.
2. No.
3. No.

 

[DVDdoug]

If you are listening as loud as you like and you're not hearing distortion, or if you can turn it up a bit more without hearing distortion, you've got plenty of power.

So I came across the recomendation to raise power to at least 120 W or even 150 W in order to get the best outta my speakers....

That kind of recommendation is useless... The important specs are sensitivity and maximum power rating.

Note that the maximum power rating is approximate and it's based on program peaks. A "100W" speaker is supposed to be safe with a 100W amplifier hitting 100W on the program peaks. You can burn-out the speaker with constant 100W test tones (especially the tweeter) or if you overdrive the amplifier into clipping which increases the average power even though the peaks are clipped/limited.

and normal level is 40dB to a maximum peak of about 80 dB. Maybe 60 to 65 in general.

How do you know? Have you measured with an SPL meter? SPL meters usually measure the short term weighted average so you have to allow "headroom" for peaks.

Your speaker sensitivity says you'll get 92dB with 1 Watt. That's at 1M but in a room with normal reflected sound the level doesn't drop very much with more distance.

 

[mlsstl]

It's me again. I got 57 W per channel when I used the Crown-Calculator for my conditions. So anything seems to be ok. But now we have the new WIIM Vibelink with stunning 100 W per channel and 8 Ohm and I'm considering to go for it and pair it with the WIIM Ultra for a reasonable price.
Will I have a real benefit from it? Will I have an audible improvement?

What do you guys think about it?

I just bought a Vibelink simply because it is a much better cosmetic match for my Wiim Ultra. I had been using an Aiyima A70 prior to that. I can't tell any acoustic difference between the two in my system (not a loud listener - around 85 dB average tops) but the setup looks a lot nicer.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

I just bought a Vibelink simply because it is a much better cosmetic match for my Wiim Ultra. I had been using an Aiyima A70 prior to that. I can't tell any acoustic difference between the two in my system (not a loud listener - around 85 dB average tops) but the setup looks a lot nicer.

85 dBA average is really loud in my opinion.

 

[mlsstl]

85 dBA average is really loud in my opinion.

I agree, that's pretty loud. In my prior post you'll note I used the word "tops" in reference to my listening. However, it's not hard to find people who like listening at 90, 100 dB or even louder -- I have a couple of friends who do classic rock and metal at those levels. Personally, I rarely go to rock concerts these days but I do take ear plugs if I go. (Side note: it makes no sense to go hear live music if one needs to block your ears.)

 

[Ropeburn]

The room ist 5x10 m and normal level is 40dB to a maximum peak of about 80 dB. Maybe 60 to 65 in general. Distance is 3m.

That means you're using less than 1 Watt of power per channel. Add some generous safety margin for peaks, and it's like 8W. Your amp is fine, there's exactly nothing to gain by getting more power that you don't ever use anyway.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

I agree, that's pretty loud. In my prior post you'll note I used the word "tops" in reference to my listening. However, it's not hard to find people who like listening at 90, 100 dB or even louder -- I have a couple of friends who do classic rock and metal at those levels. Personally, I rarely go to rock concerts these days but I do take ear plugs if I go. (Side note: it makes no sense to go hear live music if one needs to block your ears.)

Alright, I’ll take a guess and say the dBA average might be about 3–7 dBA lower than what you mentioned -making it more comfortable for extended listening sessions, in my opinion.

I’m not sure about those other high numbers you mentioned. The volume could be perceived as high or low, depending entirely on how the measurements are taken and the music being played.
If you're curious, you could try the NIOSH app on your phone. It’s accurate enough with iPhones to give you a good estimate of your actual listening levels.

 

[Gary_G]

That said, I am an amp whore.

Just awesome !

 

[mlsstl]

I have both an old-school Radio Shack sound level meter and a phone app on my Samsung. They track pretty closely when compared, so I'm comfortable that I have a reasonably useful indication of my listening levels.